The Hate Mongers Among Us.

[hippifried]

Wasn't that Abraham? And the argument was over who dad liked best. (Same argument as between me and you).

Abe was grandpa. Esau & Jacob (AKA Israel) were the sons of Isaac. Isaac, being Abraham's only unabandoned son, is the common ancestor of both the Palistinians & Israelis. (according to claims from both sides anyway) The peninsular Arabs claim descendence from Ishmael, Isaac's half brother, who was left behind with his mother (Hagar) at what is now Mecca. That makes Abraham the ancestor of the entire region. Like I said, "intra-family feud".

Isaac was just being traditional by attempting to bestow his blessing on the first born son. It was Rebekah (Mom) who sent Esau off on a wild goose chase (or wild venison as the case may be) & disguised Jacob so he/they could pull off the lie to claim birthright.

I'm pretty sure Dad couldn't help butt like me best, irrespective of tradition. Butt then again, at my age, I could almost be daddy to just about anyone in here.


BS aside: The Taliban isn't going anywhere. They've been around a long time. The Brits butted heads with them about a century ago. Who won that one? They're part of the Afghan fabric. Unraveling the sweater doesn't patch the hole. They have to be dealt into the game.

We never knew who the enemy was/is over there. We just make it up as it goes. The Taliban didn't attack us on 9/11, & they were out of power before any US ground troops actually invaded. Whether you're for or against the effort to drag Afghanistan into the modern world, we still have no idea who's who over there. Karzai's already negotiating with the Taliban. We will too.

[yodajazz]

Abe was grandpa. Esau & Jacob (AKA Israel) were the sons of Isaac. Isaac, being Abraham's only unabandoned son, is the common ancestor of both the Palistinians & Israelis. (according to claims from both sides anyway) The peninsular Arabs claim descendence from Ishmael, Isaac's half brother, who was left behind with his mother (Hagar) at what is now Mecca. That makes Abraham the ancestor of the entire region. Like I said, "intra-family feud".

Isaac was just being traditional by attempting to bestow his blessing on the first born son. It was Rebekah (Mom) who sent Esau off on a wild goose chase (or wild venison as the case may be) & disguised Jacob so he/they could pull off the lie to claim birthright.

I'm pretty sure Dad couldn't help butt like me best, irrespective of tradition. Butt then again, at my age, I could almost be daddy to just about anyone in here.


BS aside: The Taliban isn't going anywhere. They've been around a long time. The Brits butted heads with them about a century ago. Who won that one? They're part of the Afghan fabric. Unraveling the sweater doesn't patch the hole. They have to be dealt into the game.

We never knew who the enemy was/is over there. We just make it up as it goes. The Taliban didn't attack us on 9/11, & they were out of power before any US ground troops actually invaded. Whether you're for or against the effort to drag Afghanistan into the modern world, we still have no idea who's who over there. Karzai's already negotiating with the Taliban. We will too.

It was Abraham's son by Hagar, Ismael, who is said to be the father of Arab nations. It's in the Koran.
http://www.womeninthebible.net/1.2.Hagar.htm
So then Jews and Arabs are half brothers.

[hippifried]

It was Abraham's son by Hagar, Ismael, who is said to be the father of Arab nations. It's in the Koran.
http://www.womeninthebible.net/1.2.Hagar.htm
So then Jews and Arabs are half brothers.

"Peninsular" Arabs. Modern Arabs are Arabs because they speak Arabic, & they stretch from Morrocco to Iraq. Palistinians are descended from Esau, & Esau & Jacob (AKA Israel) were fraternal twins. They aren't the only twins in lore who fought over birthright. Stories get around. I can't help but wonder if that's why other heirarchical "civilizations" had so many stories, & customs, of separating twins at birth, banishing them, or killing them outright by various means. We only hear about & dwell on the survival stories. This one, Castor & Polux, Paris & Cassandra, Romulus & Remus, & various other & sundry incestuous tales of gallant woe.

Butteye digress:
Hagar, in the Torah (& therefore the Bible & all the theological lore that ensues) is called the handmaiden of Sarah. All these guys had multiple wives. We only hear about the ones who bore sons. How many daughters did Sarah have? She was gettin' a bit long in the tooth. Could Hagar have been one of those daughters? Maybe she was a newer wife that got picked up along the way & had a lower status in the (hen) pecking order. Not so once she bore the first son. That would be Ishmael. (I've always seen it spelled with an "H", but I haven't bothered to read all 3 translations of the Qur'an.) When Sarah finally popped out a boy, being first wife, she insisted that hubby get rid of the competition. Sarah wanted them killed. But young Ishmael had found a wet spot under the sand. So Abraham dug out & developed the well, & left them there to fend. That well, still producing water, is the site of the holy mosque at Mecca. The enshrinement predates Muhammad.

The point is that there didn't seem to be too much of a premium put on women. Heirarchical male dominance, combined with the discovery of paternity, created a huge change in the social structures throughout northern Afro-Eurasia. Maybe I'm wrong, but it just seems that the more primitive the society, the more respect women, the vessels of life, get. It's the Judaic tradition that first gives the creator (the giver or bringer of life itself) a mateless male persona. Everybody else has some kind of Yin & Yang thing going on, but not the Judeo/Christian/Muslim religion. Just something to think about.