We are not the leftists...

[Ben]

And Thom Hartmann's wikipedia page:
Thom Hartmann - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:ThomHartmann.jpg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2c/ThomHartmann.jpg/220px-ThomHartmann.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/2/2c/ThomHartmann.jpg/220px-ThomHartmann.jpg

[onmyknees]

Bogus data Ben. The dude in the first clip claims he's not a leftist, yet he's using democtatic leaning polls. Let me give you a lesson in polls because I like you Ben . If you ask people "do you think public employees collective bargaining rights should be eliminated" you get a very large cross section saying no. If you ask...." do you think under the current budget crisis public employeee union collective bargaining rights should be limited", (not eliminated) you get in the 70 percentile. Get it Ben??? It's how you phase the question.

[trish]

So if you commit the logical fallacy known as poisoning the well and also misrepresent the proposed legislation, you can manage to get the "yes" answers you were plumbing for. That's a bogus argument.

[hippifried]

...& you expected anything other than a bogus argument?

[Cuchulain]

Bogus data Ben. The dude in the first clip claims he's not a leftist, yet he's using democtatic leaning polls.

Thom's using a WALL STREET JOURNAL/nbc news poll. Nobody can accuse the Journal of being leftist or even 'democtatic' leaning. I'm not quite sure why the Journal is partnered up with nbc, which the REICHwing seems to think is somewhere to the left of Che Guevara...I'd bet on the questions being put fairly straight. Imo, you do get points, however, for adding the 'ic', unless democtatic is a new anti-Dem slur I haven't heard previously.

God bless ol' Thom Hartmann.

Suggesting that Gov Walker is trying to limit collective bargaining rights is a massive understatement - I'd call it a boldfaced lie and thus a slanted way of framing the question - he's eliminating those rights by restricting them to only wages, and that only up to the inflation rate.

[Ben]

Thom's using a WALL STREET JOURNAL/nbc news poll. Nobody can accuse the Journal of being leftist or even 'democtatic' leaning. I'm not quite sure why the Journal is partnered up with nbc, which the REICHwing seems to think is somewhere to the left of Che Guevara...I'd bet on the questions being put fairly straight. Imo, you do get points, however, for adding the 'ic', unless democtatic is a new anti-Dem slur I haven't heard previously.

God bless ol' Thom Hartmann.

Suggesting that Gov Walker is trying to limit collective bargaining rights is a massive understatement - I'd call it a boldfaced lie and thus a slanted way of framing the question - he's eliminating those rights by restricting them to only wages, and that only up to the inflation rate.

Who owns the WALL STREET JOURNAL? News Corporation. Who owns News Corporation? Oh... my... God! Rupert Murdoch -- ha! ha! So: Most Americans Are Social Democratic.
Americans are not: way to the right. And they're not way to the left. They're social democratic. Which means to the left of: Obama, Bush-Cheney, Bill-&-Hill Clinton etc...)

[onmyknees]

Who owns the WALL STREET JOURNAL? News Corporation. Who owns News Corporation? Oh... my... God! Rupert Murdoch -- ha! ha! So: Most Americans Are Social Democratic.
Americans are not: way to the right. And they're not way to the left. They're social democratic. Which means to the left of: Obama, Bush-Cheney, Bill-&-Hill Clinton etc...)

Dream on Ben....Social Democrat? Please. I'll g with slightly right, moderate, or old style democrat, but Social Democrat?? Fail

[Ben]

Dream on Ben....Social Democrat? Please. I'll g with slightly right, moderate, or old style democrat, but Social Democrat?? Fail

We aren't talking democratic socialist. Most Americans are to the right of me. I'm perfectly fine with that.
I'm in favor of deep democracy. I think people should control their own labor. I think people should participate in the decision-making process. I think small businesses shouldn't be crushed by multi-national corporations.
I mean, take, say, Adam Smith, the so-called father of capitalism. (He was a genuine conservative. When the term conservative actually meant something. Conservatives were against concentrated power.) So, he favored small local businesses. He FAVORED investment at home. Hence the invisible hand. Meaning businesses would prefer to invest at home rather than abroad. To avoid the ravages of what we refer to today as neoliberalism. In fact, he'd be against the policies favored by the likes of Reagan, Clinton and Obama.
He was in favor of free markets. His argument was under conditions of perfect liberty you get perfect equality. He recognized that governments will serve the interests of business at the expense of people -- and their needs. Or governments will subsidize the elites. (As we know, well, that's how politics works: you scratch my back, I scratch yours.) He favored progressive taxes. He was against corporate monopolies. Because, as he said, it distorts the market's ability to establish a fair price. I mean, you're supposed to know the name Adam Smith. You're just not supposed to know the real Adam Smith.
I'm not even sure what to describe Dwight Eisenhower. I mean, under Republican President Dwight Eisenhower the top marginal tax rate was 91 percent.
I'm simply saying, too, that both parties are to the right of the vast majority of Americans.
Most Americans want to be in a union. Most Americans want single-payer. If not single-payer, well, let's have the public option. Most Americans want that. Plus it'd bring in competition.