Climate change could mean the extinction of our species

[Gouki]

GMOs apparently have a negative effect on the bees, and once man starts genetically engineering the planet many imbalances are created as a result which throws the entire biosphere out of wack and there are many forms of alternative energy that have been surprised by GE and the mega oil corporations for years because of profit and there are underground bio weapon research facilities located throughout the world and yes Trish I agree many mineral mining and lumber practices are poorly regulated

[trish]

GMOs apparently have a negative effect on the bees...

Not apparent at all (given the hive collapse is caused by a virus with a mite acting as vector). But I take your larger point...the same point as the movie Jurassic Park by the way...nothing alive can be contained.

once man starts genetically engineering...

Careful here. The domestication of grains, tubers, cattle, pigs etc. are all examples of humans genetically engineering the flora and fauna around them. These days the experiment progress more quickly because we can directly manipulate the genes rather than using the old indirect methods. Ordinary human interaction with monkeys, pigs and chickens has created some monstrous flu viruses. The practice of dosing farm animals with antibiotics (common on factory farms) is creating resistant hybrids of all sorts of virulent "bugs." I worry more about the profit motive than urge to learn.

[Gouki]

yes Trish, the lengths the foundations and corporations will go to for the sake of year after year profit increases is scary

[Stavros]

Read the whole thread. The Sun cycle hypothesis has been debunked about eight times already.

Where the current energy imbalance due to an increase in solar constant, then

1) The mesosphere would be heating up. It's not. Instead the carbon dioxide below the mesosphere is holds the heat radiating from the Earth's surface in. Light passes through, heats the surface and lower atmosphere and is prevented from radiating back out by anthropogenic carbon dioxide.

2) The satellites that have been monitoring the Sun for the past fifteen years would have measured a significant increase in the solar constant (see SOHO satellite observatory). They haven't. In fact no examination of the measurements of the solar constant which have been made over several centuries show a significant increase in solar radiation which would account for the increase in average surface temperature rise since the industrial revolution.

3. The current observations confirm the current model of global energy imbalance.

Me too. And I'm concerned with the move toward the privatization of aquifers and lakes.

Not so much. The patent law on these things needs to be changed so Big Ag isn't able to exploit these methods to the detriment of third world farmers. E.g. The creation of infertile grains means that farmers have to buy seed grain every year because the seeds that grow from the grains they plant are infertile. This is just a fucking racket.

This is a big agricultural problem because of course bees are primary pollinators, and they work for free. Apparently honey bees are suffering from a viral disease which is carried by a mite.

This will continue to be a problem unless we can implement other sources of energy. As oil and natural gas become more scare and more expensive, nuclear will begin to look better and better. As we've seen, accidents are a problem, but IMO the major problem with nuclear is waste disposal.

Indeed, especially if the sole purpose of the research is to weaponize a virulent contagion. It is, however, difficult to assess how much of a threat we're under since bioweapons research (if it's being done at all) is done in secret.

Let me add, poorly regulated mining and lumbering practices are a major threat to the health of the planet. Poor practices in these areas have been responsible for the fall of civilizations for eons.

I am more concerned with mining and lumbering than with bees; the UK over the last century has lost a variety of insects like bees, and birds because the hedges that used to border fields have gone. Gm crops have been used to make new breeds of tobacco but I don't suppose this will stop people smoking. Incidentally, there was an item on the radio about 'City honey' made from bees who hive on rooftops in London. The argument is that the bees don't have access to countryside or gardens, but do have access to London's parks and that this gives their honey a more robust flavour than the more floral honey one associates with rural bees...

[martin48]

I am more concerned with mining and lumbering than with bees; the UK over the last century has lost a variety of insects like bees, and birds because the hedges that used to border fields have gone. Gm crops have been used to make new breeds of tobacco but I don't suppose this will stop people smoking. Incidentally, there was an item on the radio about 'City honey' made from bees who hive on rooftops in London. The argument is that the bees don't have access to countryside or gardens, but do have access to London's parks and that this gives their honey a more robust flavour than the more floral honey one associates with rural bees...

Bee colony collapse seems most likely due to a virus where the vector is the varroa mite. The role of some pesticides has also been suggested - ironically GM crops mean less pesticides. It is not a lost of habitat to blame.

Decline in bird populations are probably due to a variety of reasons - including habitat loss, climate changes, monocultures, etc. Since World War II, hedgerows have been removed at a much faster rate than they have been planted. In some parts of the UK 50% of hedgerows have gone, while others are so badly managed that their value to wildlife is much reduced. This process essentially ceased in the mid-90s. The most likely cause for some species, especially those that migrate, is climate change. If you as a bird fly from Africa to Northern Europe to breed in the Summer, you now fly a few 100 miles more to find the right climate. As with all breeding, if the timing is wrong and you are knackered, yo don't breed too well.

[Ben]

Bee colony collapse seems most likely due to a virus where the vector is the varroa mite. The role of some pesticides has also been suggested - ironically GM crops mean less pesticides. It is not a lost of habitat to blame.

Decline in bird populations are probably due to a variety of reasons - including habitat loss, climate changes, monocultures, etc. Since World War II, hedgerows have been removed at a much faster rate than they have been planted. In some parts of the UK 50% of hedgerows have gone, while others are so badly managed that their value to wildlife is much reduced. This process essentially ceased in the mid-90s. The most likely cause for some species, especially those that migrate, is climate change. If you as a bird fly from Africa to Northern Europe to breed in the Summer, you now fly a few 100 miles more to find the right climate. As with all breeding, if the timing is wrong and you are knackered, yo don't breed too well.

Albert Einstein on Bees: "If the bee disappears from the surface of the earth, man would have no more than four years to live. No more bees, no more pollination … no more men!"
And, too, Bats pollinate plants. Hopefully they don't go extinct. (But 99.9999 percent of all life that has ever existed is extinct. The dinosaurs had a good run. Sharks, too. They've been around for oh... roughly 400 million years. We've been around for 2 million in one stage or another. Or 6,000 years depending on how irrational one is -- )
Loss of biodiversity is very worrying, too.
As Stavros pointed out: deforestation and mining should worry us.
The acidification of the oceans should worry us.
Mass consumerism should worry us. Mass production, too.
Noam Chomsky was asked: Will we be around in 500 years? He laughed.
This is our culture.... Well, not really. It's difficult to talk to Americans about culture. Because culture isn't Wal-Mart, it isn't McDonald's. It isn't Brad Pitt or Angelina Jolie. It's a set of values. We have no values. (Take, say, indigenous people. They're closely connected with and to nature. We aren't. It explicates a lot. Not valuing nature means we're in a whole heap of trouble.)

[Stavros]

Bee colony collapse seems most likely due to a virus where the vector is the varroa mite. The role of some pesticides has also been suggested - ironically GM crops mean less pesticides. It is not a lost of habitat to blame.

Decline in bird populations are probably due to a variety of reasons - including habitat loss, climate changes, monocultures, etc. Since World War II, hedgerows have been removed at a much faster rate than they have been planted. In some parts of the UK 50% of hedgerows have gone, while others are so badly managed that their value to wildlife is much reduced. This process essentially ceased in the mid-90s. The most likely cause for some species, especially those that migrate, is climate change. If you as a bird fly from Africa to Northern Europe to breed in the Summer, you now fly a few 100 miles more to find the right climate. As with all breeding, if the timing is wrong and you are knackered, yo don't breed too well.

I agree with most of this, mostly with regard to birds -but in the case of bees, where does a virus come from? Could it be that some pesticide somewhere or something chemical being used in gardens infects bees? When different species of bee were cross-bred and the result was the 'African Killer Bee' did this also create a virus that most bees are not immune to? I don't know, but this would not be climate change as the factor, but science and nature.

[trish]

The current hypothesis is that bee colony collapse is due to a viral infection carried by mites...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...structor-mites

Crossbreeding bees doesn't create viruses. One has to be careful though that the bees you bring in to crossbreed with your home variety aren't already infected. I suppose it's possible that the hybrid bee that you create might be more susceptible to the deliterious effects of infection. But that doesn't seem to be the case here, since all honey bees are at risk, not just certain crossbreeds.

Also chemical pollutants are not likely to produce new viruses though they through selection change the distribution of genes in the gene pool of a particular virus; i.e. they make create an environment where the more virulent strains have a greater reproductive advantage than they previously had. Certain pollutants may also simply render honey bees more susceptible to a virus that's been around for decades. Or chemical pollutants might make colony collapse a more likely response to infection by a virus that's been around awhile. Nothing I've read indicates which if any of these scenarios applies to the current problem. Viruses evolve to exploit natural shifts as well as artificial shifts in their environment.

Pollination is big business in the U.S. and bees are transported over long distances to pollinate fields and orchards. The stress of transportation and the higher chance of being exposed to viruses increases the chance of spreading diseases among honey bees.

[hippifried]

Doesn'[t seem to be affecting the Africanized bees.

[Ben]