Climate change could mean the extinction of our species

[trish]

You, russtafa, admit that seven billion industrious people living on the same planet is likely to strain the life support system. But somehow, it’s unthinkable that it will strain the climate system which is an integral part of that life support.

One day you guys (russtafa, Faldur and others not in the HA community) are claiming global warming doesn’t exist. The next you’re saying it stopped. Then you start it up again so you can blame it on sun spots. After that you tell us the Earth is actually cooling and the next ice age is immanent. Then you claim global warming is caused by volcanos. Soon after that you claim global warming is a liberal hoax. The one I love is, “It’s El Nino!” You clowns have clearly made up your mind and are clamoring for reasons to cling to your denial.

The one constant we hear in all your argumentation is, “I don’t want regulations or taxes.” That’s not an argument for or against the theory of anthropogenic climate change. It’s merely an expression of the desire not to have to do anything about it. The fact that you’re so adamant to find reasons to deny the science indicates that you really do feel that we should do something about it were it happening. But just put that issue aside. Your assessment of the science shouldn’t be tainted by what you’re morally bound to do if the science is correct. Your assessment of the science should be based solely on the science. Then you can worry about the corrective measures to be taken.


Anthropogenic climate change exists. The Earth’s climate system is accumulating heat energy. The warmer atmosphere will hold more water. Because it takes longer to reach saturation, in some regions there will be longer time periods between rains. Because the saturation level is higher, in some regions, rains will become more torrential. Because there is more heat energy in the system, storms will become more violent, glaciers and ice shelves will melt and ocean levels will rise. Because the system is complex with ocean and air currents, mountain ranges and annual variations in luminoius flux depending on location, the effects will be regional rather than uniform. Should we try to do anything about it? Science is mute on that question. It’s up to us to decide.

[Faldur]

One day you guys (russtafa, Faldur and others not in the HA community) are claiming global warming doesn’t exist. The next you’re saying it stopped. Then you start it up again so you can blame it on sun spots.

The planet has cooled and heated throughout history. It was ongoing long before fossil fuels were invented.

Sorry you have been so duped to believe that man is responsible for keeping the thermostat set to a certain level. Good luck with that.

[trish]

The planet has cooled and heated throughout history. It was ongoing long before fossil fuels were invented.

Yes. Agreed. Of course it has. Where has it been claimed otherwise? More to the point, how is that history relevant to the current warming?

So today you agree the Earth is warming. But according to you, the reason it's warming is: it just does that. The temperature goes up, the temperature goes down. That's just the history of the thing. Doesn't that strike you as a rather ridiculous hypothesis? The Earth is warming, because that just happens to be what it's doing now!?


The Earth doesn't warm and cool willy-nilly outside the realm of cause and effect. It was hot just after it's formation. Geothermal energy kept it pretty warm for a long while even as it radiated heat into space. The Earth's wobble subjects the climate to warming and cooling intervals occurring with a period of about 20000 years. When Krakatoa blew its top and ejected particulates high into the atmosphere increasing the Earth's effective albedo North America suffered "a year with no summer" and a short string of somewhat cooler years. At one time the atmosphere had so little oxygen it wouldn't have supported human life. It was warmer having a higher percentage of greenhouse gasses. Photosynthesizing plants added the oxygen that we breathe today. They also decreased the percentage of greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere. Everything that happens has an effect. When seven billion industrious people are ejecting 30 billion tons of fossil carbon dioxide into the atmosphere each year, it will have an effect. It is having an effect.

Yes, the Earth warmed and cooled throughout history. Now it's warming, and the cause is anthropogenic.

It's clear, Faldur, that you have fairly little interest in science. You rarely participate in other discussions involving science. It's odd that you would have a position on this issue, and one that you're so adamant to defend. Are you sure your reasons aren't less than scientific and rather more ideological?

Sorry you have been so duped to believe that man is responsible for keeping the thermostat set to a certain level. Good luck with that.

Now I do defy you to link to the post where I claim man is responsible for keeping the thermostat set at a certain level. In post after post, I take particular care to emphasize that is not my position. Science cannot tell us what we should do. It can at times tell us what is happening. Indeed that last couple of lines of your short post belie your true position. It's not the science that interests you. You just don't want to be told you have to conserve, or pay extra taxes, or somehow make an extra effort to keep the thermostat fixed where it is. I can sympathize with that. I'm not interested in telling you what you should do. I'm just telling it like it is.

[Prospero]

Trish wrote: "It's clear, Faldur, that you have fairly little interest in science. You rarely participate in other discussions involving science. It's odd that you would have a position on this issue, and one that you're so adamant to defend. Are you sure your reasons aren't less than scientific and rather more ideological?"

[traLika]

I'm amazed at how many people can't seem to get their heads around the fact that we have a finite amount of air surrounding our little planet and if we tip the delicate balance of gasses within it beyond a certain point the results can easily be catastrophic (to us and many other species) in a way that a much worshipped, booming-voiced guy in the sky can't fix. Ho hum…

[Faldur]

Are you sure your reasons aren't less than scientific and rather more ideological?

I'd ask you the same question hun, but I already know the answer.

[trish]

Are my reasons ideological? No. I supplied you with lots of arguments in the last 52 pages. Can you find one that is ideological? Perhaps it was the argument from basic principles that explains how an infrared opaque sky traps more energy than can escape. Nah, that's not ideological.

But you didn't answer the question. Why not? Are your arguments ideological? How about the one that goes: the Earth is always warming and cooling, it just is...it's historical. Okay, that isn't an ideological statement. But it's not any sort of reason either, so one has to wonder.

So with a straight face answer the question. Don't post your answer. Just look in the mirror and answer it honestly.

[russtafa]

Trish believes in this shit and will always believe that crap until old age .but we know better because it's a left wing scam to rip off the people

[trish]

And than you russtafa for chiming in with a paradigmatic example of ideologically driven science denial.

[russtafa]

And than you russtafa for chiming in with a paradigmatic example of ideologically driven science denial.

most people couldn't give a shit about the scam but in Australia we don't want to pay for it or loose our jobs over it