Unions: Good or Bad??

[Cuchulain]

'United We Bargain; Divided We Beg'

[NYBURBS]

'United We Bargain; Divided We Beg'

Ah Comrade! I should have known a union topic would drag you back out from the shadows How have you been?

[russtafa]

power to the people.i hate greedy bosses

[SugaSweet]

I was in a large government (Federal) union for 26 years.What it did was provide me and my co-workers a decent pay level with decent benefits (health,retirement,and so on).We were not a closed shop so many nonmmembers received the same benefits as members.Many union rep's mysteriously would find themselves promoted to a managerial level by making closed doors with supervisors.From that standpoint I can say that if we were a real union like the Teamsters some people would have been 'hurt' so to speak.I stayed in despite that and other shortcomings of the APWU.Since I was able to take an early retirement I no longer haver contact with my former union rep's or members.Many unions are nothing but businesses themselves and the days of the unions are numbered in a global marketplace.So are unions good or bad?For me being able to sit at home and relax at age 51,I say they were good for me,but you could google 'postal violence' then give me your opinion on what was our working enviroment.

[onmyknees]

having been both a shop steward, ( and a well respected one) and now a mid level manager who has his choice to hire union, and non union contractors , I have seen this issue uniquely from both sides. Yes...from time to time there are unfair company policies, or an individual is singled out for unfair persecution or scorn by one or more managers.

Yes it's also true unions offer a higher wage, and better bennys but their products and services reflect that fact, and in this economy....it's difficult for them to be competitive. One thing of many I dislike unions for is this prevailing wage bullshit in many northern states. I understand the intent, but why as a tax payer or manager should I have to pay a non union contractor 1/3rd more than they are currently working for just because the unions have been successful in buying politicians ?

Here's my other beef with the union boys...a big project with an ambitious time line is dropped in your lap. You begin the management and scheduling of the project. If you contract with a union form....invariably the first thing they want to know is not how can they work to accomplish the tasks,or what can they do to help, but what they can't do without overtime, and how much more it's going to cost me. I don't like to generalize, but given the choice, I'll hire a reputable non union contractor every time.

I think the days of big, slow, demanding, feather bedding unions is slowing coming to an end.

[trish]

Some people say a man is made outta mud
A poor man's made outta muscle and blood
Muscle and blood and skin and bones
A mind that's a-weak and a back that's strong

You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store

I was born one mornin' when the sun didn't shine
I picked up my shovel and I walked to the mine
I loaded sixteen tons of number nine coal
And the straw boss said "Well, a-bless my soul"

You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store

I was born one mornin', it was drizzlin' rain
Fightin' and trouble are my middle name
I was raised in the canebrake by an ol' mama lion
Cain't no-a high-toned woman make me walk the line

You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store

If you see me comin', better step aside
A lotta men didn't, a lotta men died
One fist of iron, the other of steel
If the right one don't a-get you
Then the left one will

You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store

[evilernie]

I dislike union. But we'll appreciate them if we really needed them. People are generally self-serving, and the corporations know that. Unions prevents abuse. However, these "protections" might in turn abuse the employer.

Remember that not everyone have marketable or special skills that allow them to bargain with management.

Therefore, even if I dislike unions, they are a necessary evil. At least, for now.

[SugaSweet]

Thanks for the Tennessee Ernie Ford Trish.

[Cuchulain]

One thing of many I dislike unions for is this prevailing wage bullshit in many northern states.

Well, let's see...how do I phrase this in a way that promotes rational discourse? How 'bout FUCK YOU? Prevailing wage is one of the best wage protections that both union and non-union construction workers have. The non-union guys love working on prevailing wage projects because it's the only time they make a decent living. It gives union workers a fair shot at a big job because the GC or the Project Manager can't bring a bunch of illegals or southern yahoos in and pay them shit wages. Prevailing rates help to keep jobs local, which is good for the local economy. Do we use our political muscle to maintain the prevailing wage? Damn straight we do. We use every tool we've got to keep our people working and we aren't about to apologize for it.

As for 'reputable non-union contractors', they are few and far between. The building trades guys are the best at what they do. We have the experience and the skill to get the job done safely and on time. When we bring a new kid in, we put him through an extensive apprenticeship so he learns his trade. We don't just stick a shovel or a trowel or a torch in his hand and say "git 'er done". If a project falls behind schedule, it's the fault of poor planning, not poor performance on the part of the workers. I've been in the building trades for more than 30 years. I've seen and done it all. The non-union guys, for the most part, couldn't carry our jelly buckets.

[Faldur]

Union member since 1977. Once were a good thing, nothing more than political action committee's today. Long forgotten about the worker.