Passable or not passable, what if a girl was NOT passable??

[Dirky]

Wow, Zoe. That was one of the most moving and powerful posts I've ever read on the internet. I'm speechless. Well done!

[rockabilly]

Co-Sign that , I'm happy w/ who i am ... if other people like me , that's a bonus. " I like me "

[tgirlzoe]

Thank you guys.

Part of a homily from my priest had to do with pre-marital counseling for couples. People often know they're physically attracted to their fiancees and if they're virgins, having sex available and encouraged and celebrated instead of condemned and disdained, it's exciting. But people don't stay pretty on the outside forever. You have to fall in love with who the person is on the inside, that you'll still have a happy relationship when you're 70 and not out watching 25 year old hotties.

When you're 18-25, you're in this prime of trying to make yourself attractive to members of the opposite sex and being trendy and all that mess. I'm nearing my 25th birthday in a couple months and I've spent that time period living as a woman, living it up in many ways (though I'm not like these New York girls, I live in a much smaller town). Now I'm really feeling the pressure to figure out what I want to do with the rest of my life, I don't want to be out hitting the clubs every weekend in 10 years (not that I do now, I usually just chill with friends at home). I need to grow up at some point.

Every person has to come to this point, where they have to work on themselves and do what is important to them. The Church says that I can't get married and maybe I won't. But either way, I need to have a sense of myself outside of my relationships with men. I have my own interests, my own hobbies, my own personality that have nothing to do with my transsexuality or with men. If I do end up getting married, I still need to be a whole person, otherwise there are going to be problems in that sort of relationship if I don't know who I am.

Passing is a focus because it allows us to focus on things other than our transsexuality. Because otherwise people will make it a focus when it really should just be a means to an end, not an end in itself. The end should be loving other people and (I know there are a lot of atheists here but anyway) God. It's those relationships which matter and you can't build those with plastic surgery or designer clothes.

If transitioning improves your mental state, if it helps you be a better friend and a better member of your family, if it helps you to be a more productive member of society and help people, then you should transition. If you are just going to get more and more wrapped up in your own mess and become a self-centered bitch, then why bother?

Jesus said that those who lose their lives will save them. The only way to help yourself is to help other people. If you're planted in the soil of humanity, you will thrive but if you are uprooted and separate, you'll just rot. The happiest people are those who don't focus on their own happiness. I am who I am, now what can I do to make the world a better place and be a better friend, a better child/sibling(/spouse/parent)? We can't just say, "I'll do some good like volunteering or whatever, once I'm retired" or "I'll give away my money if I win the lottery", we have to work with what we have right now, where we are right now.

It sounds like Vanessa has found her place in helping trans people in some sort of support center. That's great! Other people find their place in having quiet married lives and raising healthy children. We just need to figure out where we can do the most good and do it. People say that transition is selfish but I said it five years ago and I realized that it's still true that if I do not transition, I will be no good to anyone.

Someone can be the most passable, physically beautiful, deep stealth transsexual and still be a self-centered bitch. Another can be a total tranny trainwreck and be a really amazing, loving person. I'd much rather be the latter. People focus on passing but all that means is that now you're at the same level with 3 billion other people on the planet who were born female. Now you actually have to do something.

Take care everyone!

[rockabilly]

Wise beyond your years Zoe. What kind of hobbies ... besides gaming ?

[lochaber]

good vid, Vanessa; you seem like you have a really healthy perspective on things, congrats.

and great post Zoe, thanks for sharing... That's a lot to go through, and I'm sorry to hear that you experienced all that. I'm not religious myself, so please don't take offense at this, but if you're having conflict with your church, I would strongly recommend looking at some other sects/denominations, and find one that would be more supportive of you, including your goals of marriage and parenting.

Personally, I think a lot of these issues tie in with society trying to shoe-horn everything into a binary system, when many of these things (sex, gender, sexuality, etc.) are actually more of a gradient or a spectrum.

Most people (from what I have seen) tend to see gender and sex as the same thing, and only two possible versions, male and female. Granted, a pretty large majority of people fall into these categories, but even within those categories, some people are more 'feminine' or 'masculine' then others within the same category.

Also, even biologically, there is more then just XX and XY. I can't remember even most of the common variants, but the ones that come to mind are XXX, XYY, XXY, and then there is the issue with hormone exposure in the womb for some XY and XX individuals (not sure if that's still a dominant hypothesis...).

We even see it on this board, people calling each other gay, or 'fags' , and making blanket statements (false dichotomy at that...) like 'if you're a guy and you suck cock, you're gay, just come out and get over it' etc., etc.

bleh, I'm getting off track... Anyways, what I was thinking was that because so many people are so set on everything falling into one of two categories, instead of viewing things as a spectrum/gradient/whatever, trans people get left out of the system. And this is where I think the passable bit comes in: those who are seen as passable, get shoe-horned into that pigeonhole labeled 'female', while those who don't get shoe-horned into the other pigeonhole labeled 'male'. And then this extends to those who are attracted to trans people...

Eh, I'm pretty sure most everyone on here is aware of this stuff, but it kinda bugs me. I'm generally against false dichotomies, or even just using that method of categorization (although, I will admit it can be an easy way to look at the world, it just isn't very accurate). I know it's naive, but I wish people would just be a little more open-minded, accepting, and less-judgmental of others (or at least, mind their own damned business...).

[TsVanessa69]

tHANKS FOR SHARING ZOE!!
I WAS HOPING MORE GIRLS WOULD SPEAK UP!
yOU AND aLLANAH SPOKE UP, WHERE ARE THE OTHER GIRLS?

[phobun]

He eventually convinced me that I could never really get married, that it would always be this separate thing, like a homosexual union, even if the other person and I and society saw it as heterosexual (as was with our relationship) because metaphysically, I was still male.

This, coupled with our breaking up because he went back to school (he did visit once after that last November and we had sex but I haven't seen him since even though we still talk a lot), was devastating for me. I just wanted to have a "normal life" and get married and raise (adopted, of course) kids. I was just looking for Mr. Right and I guess I realized that, as Groucho Marx said he wouldn't join a club who would have him as a member, my ideal man wouldn't want me because it would be too important to him to raise a natural family and have a certain marriage to a bio-female. So where was my life leading?

This religious guy is willing to have sex with you after suggesting that ultimately you're just a guy who could only hope for nothing more than a homosexual union.

What a prick! What a serpent in disguise!

As hurtful as this was to you, I think it is important to put the whole episode into perspective as more evidence that you're a girl in your heart and soul, because girls are always falling for the bad guys who are destructive to them. And he most certainly was.

[yodajazz]

Thanks Zoe for tow great posts. You are rich in experience. Life is always about self discovery and self identity. Many people hide from themselves, and the result is that they cannot find true happiness. You are on the right road, as is Vanessa. When you know yourself, then it is truely possible to love someone else. But the test of real love is that it helps us be more of our true selves.

[inanelymad]

Zoe,

Many, many people don't find the right person to settle down with until much later in life. Approaching 25 isn't in any way past your prime. I think its great that you are really feeling in touch with who you need to be. All the external things of finding love, etc. will come in time. Just enjoy your life being who you are!

Too many people focus on a goal, marriage, kids, etc. that is short sighted. Once you get it then what? If you make your goal to try and be happy in you life, you'll be much better off!

[transmaven]

Zoe,

A tip to grow your hair *incredibly fast* and, as a bonus, make your skin amazingly soft as well:

http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals...00-g/1283?at=0

Your posts in this thread were some of the best I've read here.

Take care.--