Pics of T's taking a Pee...standing up that is!

[Silcc69]

For the record, I have been on HRT.

There comes a point in every transgendered persons lifepath where they have to make the decision to physically and socially transition.

I have been to that crossroad (no pun intended towards cross dresser's per se), and although I KNOW that I am a woman, do not have the means by which to finish.

I would suggest that, although society LOVES to attach labels to persons (the root cause of all racism and discrimination in the world), if you have the inclination to call someone a CD, TV, or TS in these forums...do not.

It does nothing but hurt.

[SarahG]

I would suggest that, although society LOVES to attach labels to persons (the root cause of all racism and discrimination in the world), if you have the inclination to call someone a CD, TV, or TS in these forums...do not.

It does nothing but hurt.

You do realize your user name is karaalextv?

If I called myself SarahCumDumpster, I think that would forfeit my right to get pissed when someone assumes I'm a "cum dumpster" online.

You're on hormones but still live as a man. That makes you a man. Your attitude is outright insulting to those of us who have given up everything to be who we are. You haven't given up anything but testosterone. Good for you - now you're a man drowning in estrogen.

....Make the sacrifices that the rest of us have made and then you will earn the same respect. YOUR attitude 'does nothing but hurt.' I'm deeply, deeply offended. You and I are NOT the same.

~BB~

Sacrifice? Few two people are going to be the same when it comes to sacrifices... there are girls who get diagnosed early, in tolerant countries, to accepting families, who transition before puberty hits. Comparatively that's not anywhere comparable just in terms of physical pain to someone who was forced to had to go through puberty... forced by circumstance to go through having their forehead of their skull removed & replaced with a metal plate so that they can pass. Or that girl who just survived a stabbing as she watched a total stranger stab her friend(?) to death for being trans on a city street.

Some people really do have it easier than others, some people really do have it harder than others. It would be hard to quantify that in a subjective manner, to say nothing of using it to determine who is "entitled" to call themselves TS.

How many surgeries does it take for that "entitlement"? Or does it also require a certain amount of stabbings, shootings, acid attacks, or broken bones before someone should be able to call themselves TS?

True, there is a big difference between a TV and a TS, and true- not all transgender people consider transitioning... but that's a far cry from saying that being TS requires going threw a set amount of personal or physical sacrifices in the form of pain or social stigmatization.

[BellaBellucci]

Sacrifice? Few two people are going to be the same when it comes to sacrifices... there are girls who get diagnosed early, in tolerant countries, to accepting families, who transition before puberty hits. Comparatively that's not anywhere comparable just in terms of physical pain to someone who was forced to had to go through puberty... forced by circumstance to go through having their forehead of their skull removed & replaced with a metal plate so that they can pass. Or that girl who just survived a stabbing as she watched a total stranger stab her friend(?) to death for being trans on a city street.

Some people really do have it easier than others, some people really do have it harder than others. It would be hard to quantify that in a subjective manner, to say nothing of using it to determine who is "entitled" to call themselves TS.

How many surgeries does it take for that "entitlement"? Or does it also require a certain amount of stabbings, shootings, acid attacks, or broken bones before someone should be able to call themselves TS?

True, there is a big difference between a TV and a TS, and true- not all transgender people consider transitioning... but that's a far cry from saying that being TS requires going threw a set amount of personal or physical sacrifices in the form of pain or social stigmatization.

I think you're resorting to hyperbole on this one. The point isn't about suffering - it's about taking appropriate steps to become what it is we want to become and that INCLUDES sacrifice - sacrifice of male privilege. If you want to have a day job as a man with the pay of a man and the privilege of a man, then you are a man. You can't just put on panties to sexually arouse yourself (TV) and call yourself a woman and expect to retain both your male privilege and your femininity. It doesn't work that way. You have to sacrifice one.

~BB~

[SarahG]

The point isn't about suffering - it's about taking appropriate steps to become what it is we want to become and that INCLUDES sacrifice - sacrifice of male privilege.

I disagree completely. In this context, male privilege is a misnomer. It isn't privilege to get beaten up in school every day because people think you're "too fem/girly to be a proper guy." It's not privilege to get stigmatized by peers who think you're not a hetero-normative male. It's not privilege to be considered a pervert if you like kids while being seen by others as a guy.

The privilege argument only ever works for people who are successful at being "clocked" by their peers, colleagues, families, friends, and greater society as being a normal heterosexual male.

That privilege immediately turns into major hard-core belligerence for everyone who dares break the gender role norms by being too emotional or feminine or weak or anything else along those lines. That's why guys who are bi aren't called bi, they're called "faggots" by greater society while women are freely allowed to be bisexual without running into such slurs (or beyond that; encouraged to do so if they're attractive). When women wear pants, its shrugged off. When people born male wear skirts they get beaten to death and dumped in urban allies where cops usually don't bother to even seriously investigate it.

The more I read other trans (mtf) peoples' stories about their childhoods, and all their problems with peers, classmates, teachers, parents, churches etc who knew- even in childhood, that they were somehow different (maybe not that they were "trans," just that they weren't a normal masculine boy), the more I realize that a lot of trans people never had the luxury of so-called male privilege from the start and this is even more true for those who transition before they've finished their education (and therefore didn't even have "male privilege" to get them in the door of their first job).

[B_Neg]

yeah, because you all started out looking gorgeous and female from the get go. whatever. you busted your asses and sacrificed to get where you are. why'd you go there, because of what was inside. thats all i'm saying. that and i don't understand how girls farther along or complete in their transition, seem to do more tearing down of newer girls, than supporting...

[2009AD]

I would suggest that, although society LOVES to attach labels to persons (the root cause of all racism and discrimination in the world), if you have the inclination to call someone a CD, TV, or TS in these forums...do not. It does nothing but hurt.

Oh please. WE put labels on ourselves all the time. There's no problem with the label: White, Black, Latino, Asian, straight, gay, bi, Jew, Protestant, et cetera. The problem arises when people use those labels to generalize about Whites, Black, Latinos, gays....you get the picture?

Crossdressers/transvestites (who dress up on weekends, or when the family/roomates are away and take pics of themselves in deserted places or seedy motel bedrooms) are not the same as transgender women who live their lives as women, undergo medical treatments, surgeries, and name changes.



[/list]

[B_Neg]

didn't realize you'd beat me to it SarahG...

[BellaBellucci]

The point isn't about suffering - it's about taking appropriate steps to become what it is we want to become and that INCLUDES sacrifice - sacrifice of male privilege.

I disagree completely. In this context, male privilege is a misnomer. It isn't privilege to get beaten up in school every day because people think you're "too fem/girly to be a proper guy." It's not privilege to get stigmatized by peers who think you're not a hetero-normative male. It's not privilege to be considered a pervert if you like kids while being seen by others as a guy.

I was beat up in school every day just like many girls here. Over time I learned to fake 'maleness' and hence was eventually granted male privilege. Because I wasn't ALWAYS outwardly effeminate (I'd say I started faking it around age 15 and stopped at 26) I had to give it up when I transitioned. A TV more often than not, and certainly in this case, is a male for much longer and hence more locked into being PERCEIVED as male and therefore granted male privilege (if you MUST continue to argue semantics). Many formerly gay transwomen may not have done that and it seems like you're saying it somehow makes them more genuine. Well, on the flip side of that there's a school of thought that says that some transwomen simply prefer straight men over other gay men which is actually what precipitates their transition. I don't believe in that theory, but it's certainly worth discussing.

In the meantime, you're speaking anecdotally about those who never 'gave in.' You're essentially talking about gay or effeminate men. Are you implying that those of us who weren't gay or effeminate for any period of time before transition are lesser because we once garnered respect as males? Well I don't know about any other girls here, but I didn't want respect as a male; I wanted respect as a human being (to no longer be subjected to physical punishment for being different) and therefore resorted, for a time, to hiding my feminine nature.

What you're also implying here is that that makes me less of a woman or that I sold out while you simultaneously and intentionally defend a person who REVELS in that male privilege by labeling THEMSELVES a TV, which is to say they are still a man WELL into their lives. I'm shaking my head at that one.

~BB~

[BLKGSXR]

i like pho that is all

[BellaBellucci]

i don't understand how girls farther along or complete in their transition, seem to do more tearing down of newer girls, than supporting...

Co-sign. I'm not knocking early transition girls. I'm knocking those who transition a small percentage of the way, give up going any farther, blame their circumstances while the rest of us push on, and then tell the girls who want to go all the way that they're the same as them. That is absolute BULLSHIT.

~BB~