Mischelle Sabrina: TG Kills Long Time Girlfriend

[SarahG]

You can't leave a marriage 'peacefully to seek another life' if the ONLY validation comes from this board. 'Admirers' are just going to do what Phobun said: pay in validation. Well you can't survive on validation. These guys aren't going to buy any porn or escorting services from her or hire her for a job or otherwise provide her the financial means to move on and if she thought they would then I doubt this would have happened. This is clearly a person who didn't get validation ANYWHERE else and lost hope for a normal life. Period.

I think it would be a mistake to consider validation to be a prerequisite for self sufficiency. Lots of people have walked away from marriages before without receiving any validation from anyone.

On the note of self sufficiency, people who are impoverished and trans exist (frequently, I might add). Does their quality of life suck? You better believe it, but they still get out of bed in the morning and go on with their lives-just like everyone else in extreme poverty.

I will concede, however, that the "trans community" online is notoriously bad for cheerleading the act of transitioning; painting the process to be an easy one without violence, poverty, stigmatization, where everyone is "hot and passable." This sets people up for a really harsh reality check once they actually get out into the real world.

This is very judgmental of you. How can you question the mental state of people you do not even know? So only pretty young things can transistion?

I'm not speculating on this specific girl's mental state in saying this, but I wouldn't really be surprised if there was a relationship between stability/social functionality, and things like passability, age of transitioning, and so on.

Someone who can't and never will pass surely has to deal with more in their day to day lives in terms of discrimination, stigmatization, self angst- to say nothing of the various dysphoria issues. Over time I wouldn't be surprised if that was particularly draining (emotionally and psychologically) for a lot of people- and that's without even touching on the way aging itself can cause duress for women in our society.

Showing that delaying transitioning is psychologically harmful (I believe this to be an easy argument to make, with ample evidence to support it) isn't an argument against "letting old people transition." No, it is if anything a strong argument in making it easier for trans people to transition BEFORE they get to that point. It's about preventing people from ending up in positions like this girl's in the first place.

We should, whenever possible, try to learn from the people who feel so desolate and desperate as to try something like this crime.

If this girl was so distraught over her situation as to kill her GF and children's mother, then how much worse would she be (psychologically) if her access to transitioning was forbidden based on her age? Such a proposal I can only see increasing the amount of maladaptive behavior exhibited by what would be late transitioners... increasing suicides, violence, self destructive behavior, and other psychological illnesses.

[BellaBellucci]

For the record, I think it is totally unfair and unkind to blame anyone for trying to be kind and validate Mischelle, and her actions cannot be blamed on her admirers or other TS.

Mischelle was a very disturbed person, that was evident to anyone who had much interaction with her. Over the years I received many confusing and unsettling messages from her. Her instability was not hidden, her rage was always present. Many people tried to provide encouragement and support, and ultimately she needed serious hospitalization if not commitment for her multitude of mental illness.

Doesn't the second point (in bold) disprove the first? If she was that messed up, why would anyone set up a fantasy-world-like environment for her? It's sort of like dousing her in gasoline before her girlfriend lights the match, isn't it? Why do you think she lied about breaking up with her?

~BB~

No I think it proves that many people are trusting and kind, which are perfectly decent qualities.

Who's trusting? Mischelle? If so, she trusted that these boards could validate her and clearly her trust was misplaced. To me that proves that she heard what she wanted to hear from who she wanted to hear it from and the reality that her girlfriend kept dragging her back into wasn't pretty.

I know what I'm talking about. I'd rather not re-live it, but I went through this myself - my ex used to provide me 'reality' like this, telling me I was ugly and manly and all that, but you know what? I had faith that I would come out the other side and be completely 'passable' and happy. I got my wish. Mischelle didn't... and she was set up to believe she would.

~BB~

[tsmandy]

On the note of self sufficiency, people who are impoverished and trans exist (frequently, I might add). Does their quality of life suck? You better believe it, but they still get out of bed in the morning and go on with their lives-just like everyone else in extreme poverty.

I will concede, however, that the "trans community" online is notoriously bad for cheerleading the act of transitioning; painting the process to be an easy one without violence, poverty, stigmatization, where everyone is "hot and passable." This sets people up for a really harsh reality check once they actually get out into the real world.

Actually many of the girls on HD were very honest with Mischelle about the difficulties we had faced, and that every TS who does not have money faces. She had made many disparaging remarks about TS sex workers, and how we couldn't possibly understand her predicament. I spoke with her about my life pre-porn, which was pretty rough to say the least. Many of us offered sincere advice and were attacked in return.

[BellaBellucci]

I think it would be a mistake to consider validation to be a prerequisite for self sufficiency. Lots of people have walked away from marriages before without receiving any validation from anyone.

I don't mean she needs validation - the validation is just the set-up. Sorry if I implied otherwise. What I'm saying is that transitioning is not just changing your body but the way you live your entire life and so one needs new resources such as jobs, shelter, friends, etc. I think we all know that those things are easier to come by when you're 'passable.'

On the note of self sufficiency, people who are impoverished and trans exist (frequently, I might add). Does their quality of life suck? You better believe it, but they still get out of bed in the morning and go on with their lives-just like everyone else in extreme poverty.

Some people aren't mentally or emotionally capable of being poor, especially when they come from money. It's another risk factor of transition and a lot of us either went through it or are going through it. I personally can't sit here and say that my transition didn't affect me financially; it's just that this recession is dragging out the financial portion of it seemingly ad-infinitum.

~BB~

[SarahG]

On the note of self sufficiency, people who are impoverished and trans exist (frequently, I might add). Does their quality of life suck? You better believe it, but they still get out of bed in the morning and go on with their lives-just like everyone else in extreme poverty.

I will concede, however, that the "trans community" online is notoriously bad for cheerleading the act of transitioning; painting the process to be an easy one without violence, poverty, stigmatization, where everyone is "hot and passable." This sets people up for a really harsh reality check once they actually get out into the real world.

Actually many of the girls on HD were very honest with Mischelle about the difficulties we had faced, and that every TS who does not have money faces. She had made many disparaging remarks about TS sex workers, and how we couldn't possibly understand her predicament. I spoke with her about my life pre-porn, which was pretty rough to say the least. Many of us offered sincere advice and were attacked in return.

Then it wasn't the validation, she was already fucked up. IMHO.

[tsmandy]

For the record, I think it is totally unfair and unkind to blame anyone for trying to be kind and validate Mischelle, and her actions cannot be blamed on her admirers or other TS.

Mischelle was a very disturbed person, that was evident to anyone who had much interaction with her. Over the years I received many confusing and unsettling messages from her. Her instability was not hidden, her rage was always present. Many people tried to provide encouragement and support, and ultimately she needed serious hospitalization if not commitment for her multitude of mental illness.

Doesn't the second point (in bold) disprove the first? If she was that messed up, why would anyone set up a fantasy-world-like environment for her? It's sort of like dousing her in gasoline before her girlfriend lights the match, isn't it? Why do you think she lied about breaking up with her?

~BB~

No I think it proves that many people are trusting and kind, which are perfectly decent qualities.

Who's trusting? Mischelle? If so, she trusted that these boards could validate her and clearly her trust was misplaced. To me that proves that she heard what she wanted to hear from who she wanted to hear it from and the reality that her girlfriend kept dragging her back into wasn't pretty.

I know what I'm talking about. I'd rather not re-live it, but I went through this myself - my ex used to provide me 'reality' like this, telling me I was ugly and manly and all that, but you know what? I had faith that I would come out the other side and be completely 'passable' and happy. I got my wish. Mischelle didn't... and she was set up to believe she would.

~BB~

This isn't about you though, Bella. I think that even if Mischelle had not been on the message boards she would have snapped and harmed someone. She was a very troubled individual and it had nothing to do with how anyone online did or did not treat her.

[BellaBellucci]

On the note of self sufficiency, people who are impoverished and trans exist (frequently, I might add). Does their quality of life suck? You better believe it, but they still get out of bed in the morning and go on with their lives-just like everyone else in extreme poverty.

I will concede, however, that the "trans community" online is notoriously bad for cheerleading the act of transitioning; painting the process to be an easy one without violence, poverty, stigmatization, where everyone is "hot and passable." This sets people up for a really harsh reality check once they actually get out into the real world.

Actually many of the girls on HD were very honest with Mischelle about the difficulties we had faced, and that every TS who does not have money faces. She had made many disparaging remarks about TS sex workers, and how we couldn't possibly understand her predicament. I spoke with her about my life pre-porn, which was pretty rough to say the least. Many of us offered sincere advice and were attacked in return.

If that's the case, that puts the ball back more into her court. Still, I think a mod should at least permanently sticky-post a list of mental help resources now. I think we should all take this as a wake-up call.

~BB~

[BellaBellucci]

For the record, I think it is totally unfair and unkind to blame anyone for trying to be kind and validate Mischelle, and her actions cannot be blamed on her admirers or other TS.

Mischelle was a very disturbed person, that was evident to anyone who had much interaction with her. Over the years I received many confusing and unsettling messages from her. Her instability was not hidden, her rage was always present. Many people tried to provide encouragement and support, and ultimately she needed serious hospitalization if not commitment for her multitude of mental illness.

Doesn't the second point (in bold) disprove the first? If she was that messed up, why would anyone set up a fantasy-world-like environment for her? It's sort of like dousing her in gasoline before her girlfriend lights the match, isn't it? Why do you think she lied about breaking up with her?

~BB~

No I think it proves that many people are trusting and kind, which are perfectly decent qualities.

Who's trusting? Mischelle? If so, she trusted that these boards could validate her and clearly her trust was misplaced. To me that proves that she heard what she wanted to hear from who she wanted to hear it from and the reality that her girlfriend kept dragging her back into wasn't pretty.

I know what I'm talking about. I'd rather not re-live it, but I went through this myself - my ex used to provide me 'reality' like this, telling me I was ugly and manly and all that, but you know what? I had faith that I would come out the other side and be completely 'passable' and happy. I got my wish. Mischelle didn't... and she was set up to believe she would.

~BB~

This isn't about you though, Bella. I think that even if Mischelle had not been on the message boards she would have snapped and harmed someone. She was a very troubled individual and it had nothing to do with how anyone online did or did not treat her.

Ok, and that may well be the case, but I really think we should also analyze our own behavior. Sure, final responsibility rests with her, but I think this whole situation is an opportunity for many of us to look within ourselves and ask if some of us here might have inadvertantly created an impossible environment for her. Couldn't someone even have banned her if she was unstable and causing problems? They obviously would have been doing her a favor.

~BB~

[tsmandy]

Then it wasn't the validation, she was already fucked up. IMHO.

Yes, she most definitely was fucked up before she ever stepped in to HD, that was never a question. She was a time bomb.

[SarahG]

If that's the case, that puts the ball back more into her court. Still, I think a mod should at least permanently sticky-post a list of mental help resources now. I think we should all take this as a wake-up call.

~BB~

Realistically it wouldn't have helped, stuff like that only works for people who are willing to 1- seek out help, 2- let them help.

This sounds more like she would have needed to be institutionalized against her will because she simply went into denial & belligerency whenever confronted with reality, even when coming from other trans people. Even if she had sought out professional help, she would have been reacting the same way to the same insights.

The only way she would have been institutionalized was if she made it clear that she was set on hurting someone or herself, which doesn't sound to be obvious (it sounds like this was an impulsive heat of the moment reaction to whatever was going on in her household at the time).