GOTH THREAD

[rockabilly]

Woah, hold on....

If you want it to count, it's down the road, not across the street![/quote]

Thank you ...

[HP1000]

Woah, hold on....

If you want it to count, it's down the road, not across the street!

Thank you ...[/quote]



Dude that was SICK!

[HP1000]

Your telling people how to cut their wrists the right way?

[rockabilly]

Your opinion is the last thing i care about now. Scarrification is older than tattooing.

[Ryz]

Yo if it wasn't for your whip I'd have nothing to strip
If it wasn't for wrist's I'd have nothing to slit

Woah, hold on....

If you want it to count, it's down the road, not across the street!

harharhar

[rockabilly]

And i only posted the pic. Read all the thread or dont.

[HP1000]

My ex wife was a Nurse and told me stories of people cutting their wrists and ending up in the Emergency room because they cut it wrong.

I can't believe you posted that...

[Jericho]

My ex wife was a Nurse and told me stories of people cutting their wrists and ending up in the Emergency room because they cut it wrong.

I can't believe you posted that...

Dawg, that thing's been kicking around the internet for years...Lighten up.

On a pesonal note, if someone wants to 'end it all', i'm all for an informed choice.

[rockabilly]

Google has more vivid pics. My pic comes on a tshirt.

[SarahG]

Damnit, I was hoping to stay out of this thread- but now its just too hard to resist it...

Now let's get into what Traditional Goths listen to. Traditional Gothic music (at it's initial stage simply called Goth or Goth Rock) is a branch of the post-punk era of the 1970's. Siouxsie & The Banshees were the earliest group to have ever been given the "goth" label. Although they didn't like it, they ran with it, and eventually embraced it. The 1980's is really were gothic subculture in music lifted off. With such artists as The Bahuas, The Cure, Depeche Mode, Duran Duran, and Real Life. They paved a road which gave way to early industrial at the time Nine Inch Nails, KMFDM, Skinny Puppy, and Ministry were the earliest.

This might come off as semantics, but I think it would be quite erroneous to propose that the evolution of goth-derivative music, to say nothing of fashion, is "linear" along a chronological span of time. Sure there is some common origins (for lack of a better word, I almost wanted to say etiology lol) but it (imho falsely) paints the picture of "goth" turning into all these things, when it didn't. "Goth" still exists, and I can think of a few albums of the last IDK, 5-10 years or so, that sound like they could be taken straight out of the 80s- coming from bands that didn't exist at any point in time close to then. There's a constant give & take, and it runs in multiple directions, that's why so many of the older bands' "sound" changed so much as time went on (i.e. Lacrimosa, The Sisters Of Mercy, KMFDM, The Cure... there's more but that's what first popped in my head). Then there's all those cross over bands that just make things more confusing (i.e. Sanguis Et Cinis, Lacrimosa, Theatre of Tragedy [this one might be controversial to put as a "cross over band" I suppose]...), the genres that people falsely assume to be goth-derivative (i.e. EBM) because it "sounds" similar to some people to bands people usually associate with goth-derivative like KMFDM. And then there's wtf do you even call Abbney Park (and don't even think about telling me "steampunk," one band a genre does not make!).

I've seen several flow charts trying to "map out" how all these genres connect to each other, it doesn't look like a spider web, and it doesn't look like a line. Frankly, it looks like what happens when you take a 1st grader, tell him to brain storm for an essay, and then get the kid drunk on "jesus juice" so he can throw up all over the place. One big disorganized mess... and not one anyone really wants to clean up.

Confusion... if you think Disturbed, Slipknot, Mindless Self Indulgence, Korn, Static X, Godsmack, Marilyn Manson (shock rock, not goth.. let's be intelligent people), Retard-O-Bot, Jack Off Jill, Atari Teenage Riot or Rob Zombie are gothic... you'd be very wrong.

Confusion.... If you think HIM, My Chemical Romance, Evanescence, Fall Out Boy, Taking Back Sunday, Thursday, or Saves The Day is in any shape or form Gothic.. you'd be so wrong....

I have a bone to pick with this. I've read a lot of rants & raves about "what goth is," and its more common for those essays to say that then not... but let's be honest here, do people ever really say "disturbed is goth" frequently ...or is this just an example done for dramatic effect? Who actually makes those assertions? Do people commonly propose that those bands are gothic?

As you'd notice I put two of your examples in bold, to be fair I have noticed that Korn is frequently tagged incorrectly on last.fm... BUT, tags for bands are routinely incorrect on last.fm, and the more popular a band is- the more mistakes show threw. Blindly trusting a last.fm tag is like blindly trusting the "genre" ID3 tag field on an mp3 downloaded from limewire. Still I have noticed that for most bands, one of the first 5-6 tags is often an accurate one, so most people tend to have a pretty good feel (broadly) for what to label a given band.

As to Evanescence.... I think this is a separate issue. There are two things going on there, first being that the term "gothic metal" has been used & abused to the point where its no longer a meaningful label whatsoever. It's not so much that people think Evanescence is gothic (when it is not), but that people have been thinking it is "gothic metal" when it is not. This is because people have started using the term "gothic metal" to mean "symphonic metal when the lead vocalist is a girl" (fucking facepalm...). Not only have people seemingly replaced the "symphonic metal" label with "gothic metal," but they apply it so liberally that I find myself asking "where's the fucking metal!?!"

Case in point, Within Temptation. Their first album, "Enter" was about as close as that genre gets to metal. Now go pull their single, "Running Up That Hill"- and what do you find? Not metal... but a Tori Amos cover! Their newer releases are all about the same. Good? Sure [if you're ever into that stuff], but it's not metal. Calling it anything ending in "-metal" is just a blatant mistake, and as big of one as calling it "gothic." I used this example intentionally because Within Temptation (their newer stuff) sounds extremely similar to Evanescence (I know many people have noticed their similarity in fact). The other thing I'd propose, is that while most Americans don't know about Within Temptation (its not a band clearchannel has picked up afaik), they do know about Evanescence (which was). I think a lot of the "Evanescence is not a gothic band!" chatter online is nothing more than a simple "let's go bitch about this band, because people know about it since its popular/mainstream!" You'd have to be joking to propose that people assert Evanescence is gothic as much as people assert Evanescence to be "gothic metal." But how come people complain so much about the former instead of the later?