Academic Discrimination. I'm gonna explode.

[SarahG]

However when It came time to apply to their PhD. program, or to similar programs at other schools a problem arose. I asked the very same professors I got A's and B's from for letters of recommendation. They would not give them. Well, actually, one did give me letters to where ever, another only gave me one for UIC ,the last one who I got A's from refused to give any letters for anywhere. I ended up getting enough letters (3) to apply to UIC. After doing this, giving me only letters to UIC. They then denied my application, the same people who gave me letters denied my application.

Did they say why they (the ones that refused to write letters of rec) weren't going to write you one? Did the one who wrote a letter only to UIC do so intentionally or was that just a fuckup? I've had some professors that were so disorganized that if they did anything right the first time around, it was an accident....

Did you talk to the dean, your adviser, and department heads about this yet? It probably won't do anything, but if they think you're jumping straight from the specific professors you want to write letters to legal venues, they're going to get even more uncooperative. Resist the urge to just say "I'll see you in court," as it may kill any inkling they have of even coming close to helping you.

but I can't review them myself.

Nobody can review them, they need reviewers to be impartial and the only way that is even remotely possible is if the letters can't be screened by the students... the whole point on having them unreviewable is so students can't try to get vengeance from a professor who happened to not write a perfect review letter.

They're going to dig in and fight you on that until their last breath, I can't picture any university allowing a student, under any circumstance, to review a letter of recommendation. However... you might be able to get them to compromise. Propose a neutral party, like the head of the department or the dean- read the letters to make sure no one mentions that you're trans. That way, you won't be reviewing the letters- and you'll never know what they wrote. Downside is you're just going to have to trust whoever this neutral party is... and take them at their word that no one outted you. Does that suck? Very much but it will be the only way I can think of.

[smokeslv]

Thank you all for the kind words.

I did contact lawyers last year when this first came up. Lambda legal gave me a list of about 20 lawyers who might take such a case. 6 called back. Each one said that they would only take my case once I got a finding of fact in my favor from the Illinois Human Rights Commission....a court set up just for hearing discriminaton cases. Basically they did not want to touch it.

JWBL those online universities don't offer physics as one of their programs. There are experiments that need to be done, that takes access to laboratories. Even as a theoretical physicist one needs to do experiments as part of their education. Ed_jaxon is right about this being a very elitist field too, which would turn it's nose up as such a degree if it existed.

My next play is to go to this other school. Which I got into, degree status, based only on my grades, no letters. To get my MS here and get into a PhD program somewhere that they won't make me take a bunch of classes... like in Europe. But I'm not borrowing to pay for anything any more. I don't want to be another educated life long debt slave. I'd rather die.

Hi Brenda,
Sorry for your situation. If Illinois is like Massachusetts, you need to be successful at the Mass Commission Agaist Discrimination level before you can file suit. That may be why the 6 lawyers said that?? Hope things turn out for the best either way.

[SarahG]

like the fact that you were in a non-degree program?

That shouldn't make a difference, and iirc you can get a letter of rec from a professor in a different subject matter (although its more helpful to use someone from your major...).

How can people in higher education be so prejudiced and judgemental when they're ultimately resposible for preaching the exact opposite?

Seriously... the biggest myth our public schooling system is responsible for is the belief that schools are there to give our students their sense of morals.

Professors at higher levels of education are among the most prejudiced and judgmental educators around... not just because of superiority complexes (i.e. "I am the professor and I know whats what, if you disagree it means you're wrong") but because their careers depend on it. Universities need opinionated, pompous professors because their books are what sells, their ideologies are what attract donors & potential students.

Why do you think Bailey has no trouble finding employment? Writing his book was the most sure-way for him to advance his career because it made him a household name in his field, and as a result attracted like-minded religious crazies to supporting him (and by detachment, any university he is affiliated with). If he had merely wrote more of what was already written, avoided controversy, and failed to appease social conservatives Bailey would be just another unknown, ignored psyc professor. He certainly wouldn't be the go-to guy for the New York Times' coverage of lgbt science if he had just kept repeating the already established views on the field...

What it boils down to is there is schooling and then there is education. With education people are given the ability to think critically & the ability to apply it to nearly anything... and as a result they figure out their own views, morals, and ethics as they go through life. With schooling people just think what they're told/forced to think... and rarely much else. No education institution that I could think of (if that's what they're truly there for) would say "these are the morals you should follow." The conclusion, hopefully not one that is falsely optimistic, is that if people are able to think critically, they're not going to fall into the ignorance traps that lead to injustice, discrimination and oppression.

[BrendaQG]

However when It came time to apply to their PhD. program, or to similar programs at other schools a problem arose. I asked the very same professors I got A's and B's from for letters of recommendation. They would not give them. Well, actually, one did give me letters to where ever, another only gave me one for UIC ,the last one who I got A's from refused to give any letters for anywhere. I ended up getting enough letters (3) to apply to UIC. After doing this, giving me only letters to UIC. They then denied my application, the same people who gave me letters denied my application.

Did they say why they (the ones that refused to write letters of rec) weren't going to write you one? Did the one who wrote a letter only to UIC do so intentionally or was that just a fuckup? I've had some professors that were so disorganized that if they did anything right the first time around, it was an accident....

Did you talk to the dean, your adviser, and department heads about this yet? It probably won't do anything, but if they think you're jumping straight from the specific professors you want to write letters to legal venues, they're going to get even more uncooperative. Resist the urge to just say "I'll see you in court," as it may kill any inkling they have of even coming close to helping you.

They did say. The one that only wrote me a letter to UIC said specifically that he would write me a letter only for UIC. That he would not write me a letter for anyplace else. One of flatly refused gave a number of reasons... saying "oh you should retake calculus, and I'm on the comitte that votes on who get's in etc." Mind you this man gave me an A in Theoertical particle physics, in which we do much more complex maths than calculus. I looked to professors at this one school I attended before, but many of them have actually retired and were not able to respond quickly enough.

As for talking to an advisor, I was a non-degree student. Meaning taking classes to prove i can do the work to get a degree. Meaning no official research, meaning no advisor.

As for talking to the department head or the dean... The University of Illinois at Chicago is really really big. It's a small city unto itself. Might as well talk to Mayor Daley about the potholes. I think i'd have a better chance of getting a sitdown with him.

but I can't review them myself.

Nobody can review them, they need reviewers to be impartial and the only way that is even remotely possible is if the letters can't be screened by the students... the whole point on having them unreviewable is so students can't try to get vengeance from a professor who happened to not write a perfect review letter.

They're going to dig in and fight you on that until their last breath, I can't picture any university allowing a student, under any circumstance, to review a letter of recommendation. However... you might be able to get them to compromise. Propose a neutral party, like the head of the department or the dean- read the letters to make sure no one mentions that you're trans. That way, you won't be reviewing the letters- and you'll never know what they wrote. Downside is you're just going to have to trust whoever this neutral party is... and take them at their word that no one outted you. Does that suck? Very much but it will be the only way I can think of.

[/quote]

You don't seem to understand. They wanted me to sign a waiver of liability in return for their best efforts to convince the professors to write letters of recommendation for me. No guarantee they would write the letters. That I also could not look at the letters and be sure they are not telling people who do not need to know that I am a transsexual....that I am a transsexual. It's not a matter of being impartial it's a matter of privacy in that case. What right would they have to pass on such information?

All I wanted was letters that had their neutral honest academic opions. No extra personal facts. Understand?

[trish]

I must admit to feeling somewhat conflicted here. I confessed these feelings in PM’s on various occasions to several HA regulars. The problem is that I am not out of the closet, so to speak. Only a very few people, at the institutions where I got my degrees and where I’m working now, know that I’m transgender. Certainly the professors who wrote my most recent battery of letters of recommendation have no suspicions concerning my gender. I’m conflicted because sometimes (like after I read a thread such as this one) I feel that I should come out of the closet in order to make a political statement; yet all my life I just wanted to live a normal life and pass as a woman. When I walk down the street I don’t want people to be reminded of what I am and the politics I stand for, I just want them to think, “That’s one hot babe.” Really, I just want to pass and blend.

I do think I should mention that often letters of recommendation are sent under separate cover by the authors of those letters and the subject never gets to read them. This is to allow the authors some room to write honestly and fairly and it helps to quell the prospect of “recommendation inflation”. I only read one of my letters; and that only because my advisor wanted to show it to me.

I’m very sorry to hear of your blight, Brenda. These are very tough times for everybody. Many students applying for graduate schools are finding that not only are there no assistantships available, but there are no spaces available in the program. I know many excellent students who are just getting over their initial surprise at finding themselves on shortlists just to be allowed into a graduate degree program. Students already in graduate schools are staying a little longer, figuring it’s better than entering the job market in these hard economic times. More good undergraduate students are applying to programs, figuring it’s better than entering the job market. There’s less money for grants, so fewer need for graduate assistants. There’s less federal and state money going to higher education. Higher education is always the first thing that’s sliced from State budgets in lean economic times.

Still, if you find yourself the victim of discrimination; whether it’s because of your gender, your religion, your politics, whatever…you should seek all avenues for redress, beginning with the officials at your university; e.g. the department chair, the dean, the equal opportunity officer etc. I agree with Sarah, lawyers are a last resort. Your own idea of pursuing the MA first may be a solution. Good luck.

[SarahG]

but I can't review them myself.

Nobody can review them, they need reviewers to be impartial and the only way that is even remotely possible is if the letters can't be screened by the students... the whole point on having them unreviewable is so students can't try to get vengeance from a professor who happened to not write a perfect review letter.

They're going to dig in and fight you on that until their last breath, I can't picture any university allowing a student, under any circumstance, to review a letter of recommendation. However... you might be able to get them to compromise. Propose a neutral party, like the head of the department or the dean- read the letters to make sure no one mentions that you're trans. That way, you won't be reviewing the letters- and you'll never know what they wrote. Downside is you're just going to have to trust whoever this neutral party is... and take them at their word that no one outted you. Does that suck? Very much but it will be the only way I can think of.

You don't seem to understand. They wanted me to sign a waiver of liability in return for their best efforts to convince the professors to write letters of recommendation for me. No guarantee they would write the letters. That I also could not look at the letters and be sure they are not telling people who do not need to know that I am a transsexual....that I am a transsexual. It's not a matter of being impartial it's a matter of privacy in that case. What right would they have to pass on such information?

All I wanted was letters that had their neutral honest academic opions. No extra personal facts. Understand?

I understand completely, and I am telling you they're NOT going to want you to see a single sentence from those letters, and probably will do everything they can think of to prevent that from happening. But you may be able to get them to compromise by having someone else screen them to make sure they leave personal details out of them.

Waiver or not, they're not going to want you to see the contents of those letters.

[Goldenguinea]

Do you have any proof that they declined to write you letters based on discrimination? What do you base it on? I have had people ask me to write them letters of recomendations for jobs and have declined just because I didnt want to be bothered.

[horndog]

Hang in there Brenda, some general good advice given to you here. You might also want to Google some "legal" forums and ask questions there also.

In any case, good luck and hope you give these bastardos the "high hard one"...Wink, wink.

[jjhill]

sorry brenda! an individual from the h.s i went to got denied by harvard based on the rep of the h.s. It's a lot of discrimination and politics that goes on with schools and acceptance. It pisses me off when stuff like this happens. You can be one of the trailblazers for changing this. Keep us updated on what happens

[mimiplastique]

calMate mijo...