Death Penalty

[iagodelgado]

In my honest opinion, it depends on the crime. Here in the UK we render the 'Human Rights' of the sick and twisted higher above the victim him/herself!

...

I generally hand on heart wish that we had the death penalty in the UK for proven crimes of severity such as rape, murder and especially acts of cruelty and abuse upon children

x Bella

I happen to agree with the death penalty.

It's clear to me we disagree fundamentally on when it should apply and how it should be applied.

It is NOT an eye for an eye. It is for the times when they have no chance of rehabilitation. In other words, when they get out, they are still simply people who are serious predators on normal human society.

[robertlouis]

In which case they don't get out. Life means life.

[runningdownthatdream]

I can speak to the 'justice' system here in Canada. While we don't have the death penalty we are still very very susceptible to the flaws of human nature which means that there are many people convicted and given preposterous sentences purely on circumstantial evidence, incompetent lawyers, an antiquated court process, and self-serving judges. Technology is not readily available to assist during trials and everyone - from defense lawyers, to prosecutors, to court clerks to judges seem to just be ok with that. Anyone who has gone through the system as a defendant knows the capacity for errors and practices that would be unacceptable in the corporate world are readily accepted in the courts. What it all boils down to is a highly fallible system where people can rarely be convicted without serious doubt as to whether they are actually guilty.

I believe the system needs to evolve along the same path as other advances in technology, medicine, and better understanding of mental health. However, here in Canada the current Conservative/Tory government holds to the tenet that a person who commits a crime isnt just a lawbreaker but also evil (as in biblically evil), irredeemable, and worthy only of derision. Little or no thought is given to reformation and indeed little thought is given to victims other than the enforcement of jail sentences. Incarceration therefore becomes just punitive - in the same way parents in the past beat their kids for wetting their beds instead of addressing the root cause of the issue.

Sadly, I don't believe this will change. As a society we are all the worse for it.

[runningdownthatdream]

In my honest opinion, it depends on the crime. Here in the UK we render the 'Human Rights' of the sick and twisted higher above the victim him/herself!

Example.... Ian Watkins, abused an 11 month old baby (Among others) and was video'd doing so. Gave his child victims hardcore drugs. Sick twisted fucker!
Lives the rest of his days in a maximum security prison at the expense of Tax payers.

Bring back the death penalty and let the bastard suffer for days! Resuscitate just as the final breath is drawn! and start the process again!

I just came across this list of Death Penalty crimes...

http://listverse.com/2010/08/01/10-c...-on-death-row/

Vincent Brothers jumped out at me because in his case, get it over with quickly and be done with him..

I believe in an eye for an eye... do onto others etc....

There are so many sick and twisted people on this planet... In the UK we seem to just slap their wrists and reward them by allowing them to live, many reoffend!

I generally hand on heart wish that we had the death penalty in the UK for proven crimes of severity such as rape, murder and especially acts of cruelty and abuse upon children

x Bella

I'm confused by your stance - you say an eye for an eye yet you advocate death for rape?

What you've written above seems at odd with your other writings of peace and love - or is peace and love only for clients?

[robertlouis]

I can speak to the 'justice' system here in Canada. While we don't have the death penalty we are still very very susceptible to the flaws of human nature which means that there are many people convicted and given preposterous sentences purely on circumstantial evidence, incompetent lawyers, an antiquated court process, and self-serving judges. Technology is not readily available to assist during trials and everyone - from defense lawyers, to prosecutors, to court clerks to judges seem to just be ok with that. Anyone who has gone through the system as a defendant knows the capacity for errors and practices that would be unacceptable in the corporate world are readily accepted in the courts. What it all boils down to is a highly fallible system where people can rarely be convicted without serious doubt as to whether they are actually guilty.

I believe the system needs to evolve along the same path as other advances in technology, medicine, and better understanding of mental health. However, here in Canada the current Conservative/Tory government holds to the tenet that a person who commits a crime isnt just a lawbreaker but also evil (as in biblically evil), irredeemable, and worthy only of derision. Little or no thought is given to reformation and indeed little thought is given to victims other than the enforcement of jail sentences. Incarceration therefore becomes just punitive - in the same way parents in the past beat their kids for wetting their beds instead of addressing the root cause of the issue.

Sadly, I don't believe this will change. As a society we are all the worse for it.

Is there any political or popular desire to bring back the death penalty in Canada? There's a constituency for it in the UK, but I don't see it ever being reintroduced, even by the rather right-wing mob we have in power now.

Personally, I'm totally against it on two primary grounds: firstly a belief that the state should not become involved in what can only be considered judicial murder; and secondly that in the event of a single innocent person being wrongly executed any justification for the process falls completely.

[runningdownthatdream]

Is there any political or popular desire to bring back the death penalty in Canada? There's a constituency for it in the UK, but I don't see it ever being reintroduced, even by the rather right-wing mob we have in power now.

Personally, I'm totally against it on two primary grounds: firstly a belief that the state should not become involved in what can only be considered judicial murder; and secondly that in the event of a single innocent person being wrongly executed any justification for the process falls completely.

Believe it or not, death penalty talk seems to be on the rise in Canada. Our Conservative government has actually embraced the American concept of manadatory sentences effectively taking power away from the judiciary which is resulting in longer and longer jail sentences for minor crimes. They've modeled these sentences along the US system which oddly enough seems to be moving AWAY from mandatory sentences. From what i've read it would appear that the US is starting to pay attention to the increasing numbers of imprisoned citizens which is directly related to mandatory sentences for what used to be fairly minor crimes like theft and drug possession. However, our government seems to think the answer is jail more and more people for longer and longer terms for crimes that used to be considered minor. One can only assume that eventually they will push to reinstate the death penalty.

I don't believe the state has the moral authority to kill its citizens.

[Stavros]

That's why I deliberately chose the G7. Russia is 50 to 100 years from being civilised, whereas Israel, once you step away from their policies towards their neighbours, would arguably tick a lot of the boxes as a functioning democracy in a sea of tyrannies.

I find it hard to believe you wrote that about Russia. Perhaps it depends on how you define 'civilised'. I am assuming a legion of writers, musicians and intellectuals doesn't count much in the ingredients you put together to make a 'civilisation'...?

[robertlouis]

I find it hard to believe you wrote that about Russia. Perhaps it depends on how you define 'civilised'. I am assuming a legion of writers, musicians and intellectuals doesn't count much in the ingredients you put together to make a 'civilisation'...?

I'm referring to its current state, run by robber barons, horribly racist, actively persecuting gays, and civil liberties under siege by a venal and criminal government.

I dare say you could have put forward the same argument for Germany under the Nazis....

[Stavros]

In my honest opinion, it depends on the crime. Here in the UK we render the 'Human Rights' of the sick and twisted higher above the victim him/herself!

Example.... Ian Watkins, abused an 11 month old baby (Among others) and was video'd doing so. Gave his child victims hardcore drugs. Sick twisted fucker!
Lives the rest of his days in a maximum security prison at the expense of Tax payers.

Bring back the death penalty and let the bastard suffer for days! Resuscitate just as the final breath is drawn! and start the process again!

I just came across this list of Death Penalty crimes...

http://listverse.com/2010/08/01/10-c...-on-death-row/

Vincent Brothers jumped out at me because in his case, get it over with quickly and be done with him..

I believe in an eye for an eye... do onto others etc....

There are so many sick and twisted people on this planet... In the UK we seem to just slap their wrists and reward them by allowing them to live, many reoffend!

I generally hand on heart wish that we had the death penalty in the UK for proven crimes of severity such as rape, murder and especially acts of cruelty and abuse upon children

x Bella

It reads to me like a failure to distinguish revenge from justice. Justice is a social response to the violation of the law on the basis that it has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused/convicted was responsible. What you don't deal with are miscarriages of justice -at the time, in 1985, Winston Silcott was pilloried in the press as a revolting police killer whose actions all but severed the head of a policeman during a riot on the Broadwater Farm estate -The Sun in particular went to town even before the verdict in the trial depicting him as a monster. Inconveniently for them and the justice system he wasn't even on the Broadwater Farm estate that night, and he was released from prison after serving 6 years- would he have been hanged if we still had the death penalty? Then you could add in the Birmingham Six convicted of the bombings in Birmingham in 1974 which accounted for the largest loss of life from bombing since World War II -16 years in prison for a crime they did not commit. And so on. As for human rights, perhaps you can agree that either we all have them, or nobody does -?

[Stavros]

I'm referring to its current state, run by robber barons, horribly racist, actively persecuting gays, and civil liberties under siege by a venal and criminal government.

I dare say you could have put forward the same argument for Germany under the Nazis....

I don't see how you can make a political judgement of selected Russians and then decide this disqualifies Russia as a whole as being 'civilised'. Presumably you could have done the same with the United Kingdom in the 1980s if you thought Margaret Thatcher was destroying the country -much as her acolytes said of the Labour Governments of 1966-1979....as I said, it depends on how you define civilisation; surely politics is but one aspect of that-?