Grooby,Bob's Tgirls,Evil Angel etc must educate on silicone!

[GroobySteven]

Bottom line of a few girls dying of silicone poisoning is virtually un-affected.
.

Good to know you have calculated disposability into the P&L

You are an ass.
Your other message isn't even worth replying to in this topic. If you really want to question my skill and intelligence and "bottom feeding" bring it up in another topic and maybe I'll deem to answer it.

It's easy enough to find out what we pay models but I'll leave that up to you to find out as you obviously know so little.

Isn't even worth replying to? Thanks for the compliment. And just to make sure you are clear, I don't believe I ever said you had skill or intelligence, much less question it. What you do or how you do it makes no difference to me, and I have no concern really to know the exact amount you are paying girls in Brazil. I know its not much, and so do you. I just really loathe a self rightous charlatan. I am sure you understand.

Calling you an ass wasn't meant to be a compliment. Thanks though, I'm obviously fairly intelligent and have a shit load of skill that I've managed to keep a company successful for over 11 yrs without having any major setbacks and still have the time and inclination to come on boards give a point of view and put self-righteous, ill-educated and uninformed cunts like you in their place.
You obviously don't know how much we pay the girls in Brazil but it's pretty fucking good - better than any other company and they get paid a lot better than more "educated" professions. I know many of them would take exception at your calling of them poorly educated but nice racial and bigoted stereotyping.
I fail to see though how I'm a self-righteous charlatan (check your spelling next time instead of just snapping with ire. Care to help me understand or do you have any other inane ramblings or useless crap to bicker about?

[LG]

I think now it is up to those who deal directly with these girls to take action and launch a major campaign to raise awareness. I am talking about the photographers, the other models, the people who run the websites and produced the DVDs- everyone involved in the porn and escorting industry. If the people who have made money by photographing these girls or putting them online can do this, they can give something substantial back to the TS community, especially in Brazil, where this problem is common and deaths occur frequently.

If you really want to get people to stop injecting, find a way to make it easy for girls to go on HRT before puberty starts. Until that happens, people are going to turn to whatever they think MIGHT help, even when its risky.

This isn't really about what happens in Brazil. Pumping happens all over, even in the US. All you have to do is google this and you'll see it happens here, people die from it here, and when someone dies from it here- local DA's offices usually try to find someone to charge for it.

I really don't see how anyone could even attempt to throw the producers under the bus for this. They're not the ones who dictate access to proper medical care, regulate medical protocols, or throw shit fits when supportive parents try to help their kids get on HRT at the right age.

If someone were to really want to make a far-fetched argument about responsibility on this, how about all the consumers of these products out there who eagerly support (either in votes, donations, or volunteering) conservative politicians? Not having access to trans health care would be less of a problem if it weren't for the stigmatization & discrimination problems. And those two problems have a snowballing effect that is directly responsible for the practices that the medical community is currently able to get away with (i.e. "I'm not putting you on hrt, you're not __ years old yet. Comeback in _ years," or health care providers basically saying "we'll cover you for any treatment you need that's listed in the DSM, well, except this one- and since no one cares about your situation, we can get away with not calling it what it is [discrimination].").

I see your point....But HRT is not without risks either:
http://www.fresh.sissify.com/real-gi...xual-patients/

And starting early is not necessarily a good idea, according to those who should know about these things (although it is not taboo as it was before):
http://www.secondtype.com/young.htm

The widely followed HBIGDA Standards of Care of Gender Identity Disorders, a document which has previously (and increasingly controversially) been against the treatment against the hormonal treatment of under 16's, has relaxed its rules somewhat in the latest (2001) Version 6. It now states that:

"Adolescents may be eligible for puberty-delaying hormones as soon as pubertal changes have begun. In order for the adolescent and his or her parents to make an informed decision about pubertal delay, it is recommended that the adolescent experience the onset of puberty in his or her biologic sex, at least to Tanner Stage Two." [on average this means about age 11 for biologic females, age 12 for biologic males] .....

"Adolescents may be eligible to begin masculinizing or feminizing hormone therapy as early as age 16, preferably with parental consent. In many countries 16-year olds are legal adults for medical decision making, and do not require parental consent. ....

"Any surgical intervention should not be carried out prior to adulthood, or prior to a real-life experience of at least two years in the gender role of the sex with which the adolescent identifies. The threshold of 18 should be seen as an eligibility criterion and not an indication in itself for active intervention."

Although still not coming out in favour of starting feminizing hormone treatment at a normal puberty age and delaying any sex change surgery until at least age 18, the standards do at least now allow the treatment of very young adolescents with puberty-delaying hormones and thus help prevent the socially and mentally disastrous development of normal male [secondary] sexual characteristics and appearance in an under-16 MTF school girl.

In its defence, the "Standards of Care" is clearly and understandably concerned about some instances of unsuccessful boy-to-girl gender re-assignment of intersexed babies, such as the highly publicised failure of the gender re-assignment David Reimer (aka the "John/Joan" case), and wants to avoid any future repetition.

So I think it's not that simple. And (this is important, and some people have realised what I meant) I'm not throwing the producers under the bus- I have not blamed the producers at all. I have merely said that I believe they are in a position where they can make a difference.

Anyway, my thoughts are a bit random right now because I need some sleep. I'll check out how the debate continues tomorrow.

[Felicia Katt]

Blamiing Adult Content Providers for problems from silicone is like blaming Cheech and Chong for the prevalence of pot. Media reflects a culture's values, it doesn't cause them. And this culture values a highly idealized, artificial perfection and condemns those who fall short. Just look at the some of the comments in some of the threads where girls who haven't pumped are berated. If you want to pass the blame around, blame those buying the content and those idolizing and rewarding the girls who take those risks. Its simple supply and demand and so long as girls with hips and butts are more in demand, there will be girls who will try to supply it. You pay more to see girls with silicone than without and you buy more videos or join website with girls with silicone than of those without it. Until that changes, girls will continue to try to change their bodies to meet that societal ideal, knowing the risks, and no amount of additional warning will deter them.

FK

[GIA LOVES RON]

Please any girls who feel like they need to do it. Just weigh in your options and you might actually find out that doing it the right way is the best way to go. Get some butt implants or Fat grafting. JUST DON'T DO IT!

[trannybanger]

Bottom line of a few girls dying of silicone poisoning is virtually un-affected.
.

Good to know you have calculated disposability into the P&L

You are an ass.
Your other message isn't even worth replying to in this topic. If you really want to question my skill and intelligence and "bottom feeding" bring it up in another topic and maybe I'll deem to answer it.

It's easy enough to find out what we pay models but I'll leave that up to you to find out as you obviously know so little.

Isn't even worth replying to? Thanks for the compliment. And just to make sure you are clear, I don't believe I ever said you had skill or intelligence, much less question it. What you do or how you do it makes no difference to me, and I have no concern really to know the exact amount you are paying girls in Brazil. I know its not much, and so do you. I just really loathe a self rightous charlatan. I am sure you understand.

Calling you an ass wasn't meant to be a compliment. Thanks though, I'm obviously fairly intelligent and have a shit load of skill that I've managed to keep a company successful for over 11 yrs without having any major setbacks and still have the time and inclination to come on boards give a point of view and put self-righteous, ill-educated and uninformed cunts like you in their place.
You obviously don't know how much we pay the girls in Brazil but it's pretty fucking good - better than any other company and they get paid a lot better than more "educated" professions. I know many of them would take exception at your calling of them poorly educated but nice racial and bigoted stereotyping.
I fail to see though how I'm a self-righteous charlatan (check your spelling next time instead of just snapping with ire. Care to help me understand or do you have any other inane ramblings or useless crap to bicker about?

Really? Spelling is what you want to run with? That is your attempt to put me in place? Sean, you know nothing about me, or what I do, but we all know how you make your living. Have you truly convinced yourself that you are doing anything more than profiting off others? That you are doing something for the good of mankind? That is how you have kept a porn company afloat for 11 years... you really believe that takes intelligence? Oh, I suppose its that "shitload of skill" you carry in your mouth. You can add delusions of grandeur along with charlatan to your list of attributes.

I called no one poorly educated other than you. I am far from a bigot, alsa two of my best friends are Brazilian, born and raised, so I have been there many times. I find it hard to believe that you are paying girls to do porn more than the average professional makes, and you know its not true. So you pay higher than average for transsexual hooker in Rio to do porn, and that merits some sort of pat on the back? They do it out of necessity and you prey on that necessity. Everyone enjoys looking at porn, but in places like South America and Southeast Asia it comes at a price, and you sure are not the one being taken advantage of. Why do you even try and pussyfoot around it and pretend as if it is not the truth? Any intelligent person is aware. And not that I even think it is your responsibility at all, but I have to state what is obvious, you have no inclination to help any of these girls if it does not benefit you. Keep it real.

[GroobySteven]

Bottom line of a few girls dying of silicone poisoning is virtually un-affected.
.

Good to know you have calculated disposability into the P&L

You are an ass.
Your other message isn't even worth replying to in this topic. If you really want to question my skill and intelligence and "bottom feeding" bring it up in another topic and maybe I'll deem to answer it.

It's easy enough to find out what we pay models but I'll leave that up to you to find out as you obviously know so little.

Isn't even worth replying to? Thanks for the compliment. And just to make sure you are clear, I don't believe I ever said you had skill or intelligence, much less question it. What you do or how you do it makes no difference to me, and I have no concern really to know the exact amount you are paying girls in Brazil. I know its not much, and so do you. I just really loathe a self rightous charlatan. I am sure you understand.

Calling you an ass wasn't meant to be a compliment. Thanks though, I'm obviously fairly intelligent and have a shit load of skill that I've managed to keep a company successful for over 11 yrs without having any major setbacks and still have the time and inclination to come on boards give a point of view and put self-righteous, ill-educated and uninformed cunts like you in their place.
You obviously don't know how much we pay the girls in Brazil but it's pretty fucking good - better than any other company and they get paid a lot better than more "educated" professions. I know many of them would take exception at your calling of them poorly educated but nice racial and bigoted stereotyping.
I fail to see though how I'm a self-righteous charlatan (check your spelling next time instead of just snapping with ire. Care to help me understand or do you have any other inane ramblings or useless crap to bicker about?

Really? Spelling is what you want to run with? That is your attempt to put me in place? Sean, you know nothing about me, or what I do, but we all know how you make your living. Have you truly convinced yourself that you are doing anything more than profiting off others? That you are doing something for the good of mankind? That is how you have kept a porn company afloat for 11 years... you really believe that takes intelligence? Oh, I suppose its that "shitload of skill" you carry in your mouth. You can add delusions of grandeur along with charlatan to your list of attributes.

I called no one poorly educated other than you. I am far from a bigot, alsa two of my best friends are Brazilian, born and raised, so I have been there many times. I find it hard to believe that you are paying girls to do porn more than the average professional makes, and you know its not true. So you pay higher than average for transsexual hooker in Rio to do porn, and that merits some sort of pat on the back? They do it out of necessity and you prey on that necessity. Everyone enjoys looking at porn, but in places like South America and Southeast Asia it comes at a price, and you sure are not the one being taken advantage of. Why do you even try and pussyfoot around it and pretend as if it is not the truth? Any intelligent person is aware. And not that I even think it is your responsibility at all, but I have to state what is obvious, you have no inclination to help any of these girls if it does not benefit you. Keep it real.

Yeah I must admit the old "crappy spelling" comeback is a bit weak on this forum. Do I honestly believe I'm doing something "for the good of mankind"? No - can you or how many people in this forum can? Do I believe that I run a conscientious company that tries to treat people fairly, educate in responsibilities, pay fair wages/fees, put money back into the countries we work in either through local producers and support staff or be repeatedly working with models, by giving to charity, by supporting transgender rights in the countries we work in? Yes, absolutely. I take advantage of nobody.

I'm sorry you find it hard to believe but look up some average wages in say Brazil or Thailand. The models we work with in Thailand, do far better than the average similar aged University leaver and the payments we give them to work with us, are excellent. Which is why the models come back to work with our company, again and again and why many models will work, only with us. Yes of course it's necessity, the same as as individual in this country has to go and work in McDonald's for a living but they don't have to work with us, most have jobs in bars and could make their living there, they work with us because they payment they get is a good days work.

You stated in your first ridiculous posting, "so keeping them as uneducated as possible is what gives them the upper hand. " so yes, you did call them un-educated and your "I have a Brazilian friend" argument is just an embarrassment.

So how am I a charlatan?
How am I un-educated or a liar - and whom do I take advantage of?

You've made plenty of accusations. You've judged me solely on the fact that you "think" that as a pornographer we take advantage of people in these "poor" countries but you've provided no facts or substantial information and are downright incorrect in most of your assertions?

What do you do that is so great? How many people from 3rd world counties do you abuse on a daily basis and how many people do you genuinely help, I'm willing to bet you do a lot worse that I do.

[AsiaMei]

I have posted this article to the Stopping The Hate website about my own personal experience with silicone injections. Normally I don't discuss the subject, but after hearing about another young transgender woman dying from the injections I thought it best to talk about it openly in hopes that it might help other young transgender women from ever considering loose silicone injections as an option.

http://stoppingthehate.com/News-Arti..._Chavalier.htm

Peace and I hope this helps on the subject at hand
Meghan

that was a good read meghan
i been thinking of doing it for awhile, hearing diff stories. "/
prob not going to do it.

[SarahG]

I see your point....But HRT is not without risks either:
http://www.fresh.sissify.com/real-gi...xual-patients/

And your point is what exactly?

Everything has risks. Simply getting in the car to get to get to a doctor's office has risks. But there's a far cry difference between hrt and some pumping party using industrial grade silicone.

By the way, your link had this disclaimer in it:

"This study is a retrospective and not a case-control study. Therefore, no definitive conclusions about the relative risks of cross-gender hormone treatment can be drawn."

The reality is that the current treatment schemes simply don't work well. It would be redundant to mention the prevalence of suicides, suicide attempts, and self destructive behavior for trans people. There's not going to be a magic cure all, there isn't going to be some policy change that could make that suddenly vaporize... but I find it laughable that any criticism of making treatment access easier is so often countered with "oh, but its risky". Sure its risky, transitioning is going to be risky (to a point). But there's a huge difference between proper medical care, from supportive medical professionals... and a pumping party where people with no medical training are playing around with industrial silicone that was never meant to go anywhere near the human body.

And starting early is not necessarily a good idea, according to those who should know about these things

Those who should be in the know? Followed by quotes from the SoC? Really? Are you joking?

What next, some quotes from Bailey, Blanchard, or the Clark Institute?

[Odelay]

LG, I have to agree with what SarahG writes, above. And beyond the argument that life is all about navigating the risk/reward line, and that much of HRT research is still yet inconclusive, I think there is a bigger issue...

How do we live authentic lives? For people who come to the conclusion that they would be more happy to be transgender, be it at age 12 or age 40, what role should society and medicine play to help such individuals and their parents?

There may be no greater reward in life than to lead an authentic one. That would seem to imply that the risks associated with leading such a life could justifiably be quite high.

On your original question... I didn't vote. I guess I'm neutral until I hear a fully persuasive argument, for or against.

[tsntx]

talking about how brasillian girls are paid well is equal to the same conversation that i had on the SER board about guys paying thai hookers $15 for a fuck and $45 for an overnight

the arguement was to them that they paid well over the asking price and that w/ that price the girl could feed her family of 8 for a week

my arguement was that doesnt make it right

and i stand behind that assesment

but thats why ppl use the services of 3rd world countries bc they can get away with a lot more for a whole lot less $$$

same reason why when people have work to do at their home they will use workers standing outside of the home depot vs. using the home depots workers to do it