Genocide................................(Hurricane Related)

[chefmike]

I wasn't gonna comment anymore on this tragedy, but I do want to compliment you on that post...well said, brickcitybrother...

[AllanahStarrNYC]

I know there is oil in Africa-
it was figurativek, but I guess that is hard to denote in writing-

In any case, I stand by what I have said, and will continue to say about the current administration

IT'S HELPLESS

even the president's mother thinks the hurricane was good for the poor people it affected-

could these people be anymore out of touch?

i guess so and maybe a lot of americans are as well- after all he did get re-elected.

it's really a complete shame that this great country gets a baffoon for a leader who can't even manage public speaking as it's leader.

in any case- let me tell you all something.
my family and i lived through hurricane andrew in 92 in one of the most affected areas. i remember very clearly that the landscape looked like world war 3 afterwards and how it felt to live in those conditions for about a week- which is no where near the level of devastation of this storm.
so i know what it's like for your house to be destroyed, to have to move to a new place while it is rebuilt, and all the trauma that goes along with it.

regardless, i hope everyone here has contributed something to the relief.
you never know when u might need it as well so..

COUGH IT UP

wether it be your time, $, or whatever....

[NickTheQuick]

...

[Quinn]

Good post brickcity. Just had to correct you on something. I never said or implied that Bush and his administration do not share a large part of the blame for the lack of help to those people affected by this tragedy. I argued against (both sides at times) those who stubbornly believed that only one side is to blame.

I second that motion. There is plenty of culpabilty at all levels of government for this fiasco, starting at the local level and going all the way up to the president.

-Quinn

[geekmeat]

Unfortunately this tragedy is just the beginning of Americas demise.
We are consumed by lust for material things and money to the point of destroying ourselves.
America is becoming a christian theocracy like Iran is a muslim theocracy.
Fundamentalism,the blind faith in some unforseen god and a shunning of science are leading us to our doom.
America has a lot to pay for and unfortunately this disaster is just the beginning im afraid.
I listen to right wing radio from time to time and heard Michael Savage say that "You know you dont care about this.....lets talk about something else".
Savage is jewish.
Imagine if a black talkshow host or even a white one(WASP) had said "Oh the holcaust.....who cares".
He went one to call the survivors "animals" and said "You know you dont want THEM living next to you".........We all know what he meant by that.
He went on to say that they government shouldnt give them any money they could just "Loot in whatever city they were in".
The hate and racism coming from white america makes me sometimes think "We deserved 9/11"
I know its wrong......
I hear these statements from CERTAIN white people NOT all of them and I can feel the hatred building inside of me.

[evil_twin]

GEAKMEAT.....YOUR NOT A STUPID MAN......YES, RACISM EXSISTS IN ALL RACES ESPECIALLY BLACKS ON BLACKS, THEY ARE KILLING EACHOTHER OVER SHIT LIKE SNEAKERS....READ THE DAILY NEWS HOW 2 YOUNG BLACK TEENS WHERE SHOOTING AT EACHOTHER AND KILLED A 10YEAROLD BLACK GIRL ON HER BIKE.........IGNORANCE IS NO EXCUSE.........TO SAY THAT "We deserved 9/11" IS THE WORDS OF A FOOL........YOUR NOT A FOOL GEAKMEAT, I DEFINATLY DO NOT AGREE WITH YOU ON YOUR POLITICAL VIEWS, BUT THATS NORMAL. WE ALL HAVE OUR OWN OPINIONS.....BUT....WHY DID THE PEOPLE OF 911 DESERVE TO DIE, WHERE THEY ALL RACISTS.......DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MANY GOOD BLACK , LATIN , ASAIN AND NON-WHITE PEOPLE WHO DIED IN THAT TRADGEY........PLEASE GEAKMEAT....I RESPECT YOUR DIFFERENT POINTS OF VIEW BUT IF YOU WISH BAD ON ANYONE JUST TO PROVE A POINT THEN THATS BAD KARMA FOR YOU PERSONALLY....STATEMENTS LIKE THAT RUIN YOUR CREDABILTY......TAKE THAT BACK

Megabody, I don't know if you read my last post or not.
Either a black person has hurt you in the past or you are very stupid.
But, every time you respond to someone no matter what was just said, you feel the need to throw "black" people and "black" crimes in someones face.

Every time you turn on the news you see blacks killing each other.
Well, every time I turn on the news I see a whites killing each other also.
Your race do not have clean hands, but you take any negative you see about my race and group us all in it.
Every time there's an amber alert, it's a lil white kid being kidnapped by some white sex offender.
pregnant white woman dying by the husbands
white woman killing their newborns.
white men shooting their co-workers
I'm mean where the term "going postal" come from?
How the hell are you going to answer a question about racism by saying blacks are killing each other. TALK ABOUT RACISM!!
you need to get off your fucking high horse and clean up your own people's mess and stop acting like y'all a bunch of innocent law-abiding citizens.

[speck]

The buck stops with the President - he had the power to make the calls and supercede anyone at any level under him.
seanchai

Actually this is not true. The Constitution is the controlling document in the United States(remember we are not a dicatorship...the President cannot do things that are not specifically granted in the constitution, certain actions this century notwithstanding). The governor of Louisiana(and for any other state) has control of their National Guard troops for domestic natural disasters. The president only has control for matters of war.

Also I will note that George Bush has no authority whatsoever to mandate that there be an forced evacuation in any state of emergency unless martial law is declared.

Where Bush did not screw up is:

1.) He was not and could not be involved in prehurricane issues. That was the job of local government
2.) The argument that funding to US Army corp of Engineers was cut is bullcrap. I did finally find an article that quoted a real number. In 2003 funding was cut from $36 million to 10.3 million. Hardly to a trickle as the NO Times Picayne described it WITHOUT ever quoting an actual number, but certainly an overwhelmingly significant number. But it is all bullcrap anyway because the section of the levy that was breached had been upgraded in 2002 anyway.
3.) The immediate aftermath...What was it that Bush could do here? The National Guard was constitutionally in control of Governor Blanco. In fact, Mayor Nagin gave an interview where he stated that Bush had told him Bush had asked Blanco to cede control of the Louisiana National Guard so that they could be under the control of Lt. General Honore, and Bush told Nagin that Blanco said she needed 24 hours to make that decision. That delay cost lives.

What Bush did screw up on:

1.) The people he appointed and approved of in FEMA. Even the Bill O'Reily's and Sean Hannity's are giving him crap on this one.

2.) Failure to order use of available military aircraft to lift survivors out of the superdome/convention center area. It's an absolute catastrophe and tragedy that these individuals were stuck for any time at all. I believe that FEMA could have asked Bush to do this, and I also believe that Bush could have offered this up to FEMA.

3.) Failure of FEMA to utilize the major airport(forgot what it's called, but it was not underwater) as an evacuation point. The number of people that could have been flown out is staggering and I have no idea why no one thought of this.

Bottom line is you hate Bush and are looking for anything you can to find fault with him. I strongly suggest you research facts. Very pertinent facts are the emergency plans that were in place prior to Katrina, if those plans were utilized, exactly what authority each governing body had, what upgrades were recommended for the levy system in New Orleans, what upgrades were done, what plans were in place for the post hurricane if any at all.

I don't much understand emotional responses to politics and tend to believe that such responses come from lack of information. A informed individual can make a logical argument based on a factual foundation. Such a informed individual also does not become upset or emotional when logically and factually proved wrong. They modify their point of view once incorporating that new information, or they discard the information as incorrect.

You seem like a very reasonable person when not discussing politics. I really think it would do you well to become aware of fact, and find fault with your opponents where actual fault really exists. It makes your arguments against your opponents all that much stronger. With farcical arguments, it is easy for an opponent to discard everything you say, even though some of it may be valid.

As an aside, I have sent you an pm that you may find useful. It is related to your websites.

[MichaelAcevedo]

Oh please stop whining. Why the f*** can't people do anything for themselves nowadays? Just because we have technology and millions of people means nothing.

If this was 2000 bc, they'd be lucky if even 2% of the population survived, hell that city would be gone and may not have even been there in the first place.

Gas was bound to go up anyways, whats going to happen when it runs out, blame the president? Oh yeah Clintons grandson didn't kill enough dinosaurs fifty million years ago so its his fault we don't have enough fossil fuels. Yeah okay whatever.

We are stuck on gas, deal with it. Until someone gets the guts to make a gas tax to change the infrastructure and manufacturing, there isn't jack that will be done, as every company is CORPORATE and is happy with what is there.

There was a lot more destroyed than just New Orleans, I thought two days was a good amount for him to step in, you haft to know the facts before you can just jump into everything. I went to bed Saturday night thinking it was going to disappear by Sunday evening once it hit land, and I'm sure alot of people felt that way as well.

Mother natures way of Shock and Awe (or God, Allah, Republicans, or whatever you want to play the blame game on) if you will, the hurricane left many stunned, and we are not at the technological, socialogical, and psychological level yet to handle a mass disaster of this magnitude, we may never be.

Even if we had Star Trek level technology, I still bet most of the city would have been destroyed and that there still would have been lives lost, as many people are just outright refusing to leave.

[LG]

I'm hoping we can settle this issue once and for all. Here are some of my thoughts:

1. The complacency of the local and Federal governments in facing up to Katrina both before and after she struck is not tantamount to genocide, "the systematic and deliberate destruction of a racial, ethnic or social group". It was merely complacency, apathy and incompetence to a high degree, and though I'm not an expert on politics, I would presume the buck stops with the President (although a large number of organisations and people are also to blame). Should heads roll? Well, I would expect to see a few resignations from the more responsible.

2. There is still racsim in America, as well as sexism and homophobia. If it is true that most crimes are commited by blacks (and it's not true for all kinds of crimes) then the reasons for this should be analysed and combated- these issues are social and political. There is also racism, even fascism in several other nations such as in Africa and the Middle East. This doesn't mean that the US should not face up to its own problems.

3. America is not neccessarily the greatest nation on Earth. The UN development index lists Canada and Japan above it, and Norway is streets ahead in terms of personal wealth, social development and even infrastructure. There is a huge poverty gap in the US that is not found in most European nations. America also depends on many other nations for support, for oil, for imported goods. There are many other nations with nuclear weaponry and many with similarly large armies. China, still developing, but at a fast rate, may soon eclipse the US in several aspects. Any American who believes that he lives in the greatest country on earth is an American who cannot recall Vietnam, the persecution of the Indians (Native Americans, as they are often called actually prefer to be called Indians) and Blacks, and the issues of drug abuse, crime and homelessness.

4. Americans who claim that foreign nationals shouldn't be concerned with American issues forget not only the fact that foreign nations more often than not been keen to support the US, as they are now post-disaster, and that there are many nationals from non-US nations living and working in the US, but also, primarily, that the US has poked its own nose in several countries' business, often when there was no reason to and often at the expense of many lives.

5. There are many people in nations across the world who dislike Americans and the US as a result of the issues in points 3 and 4.

Don't get me wrong here. I have visited America, have liked it and the American people I have met, and even loved parts of it, I have American friends and relatives in America. I truly love all that is right about America. But I find there is also a lot wrong, a lot of things preventing the US from being the greatest nation on Earth, and until the American people and Government recognise this, the image that the nation wants to project, of a benevolent and liberal leader of the world, will continue to be tainted by the conceit and ego it has shown many times in the past when handling issues both foreign and domestic.

Finally I agree that many people refused to leave their homes in New Orleans. But many others were unable to, or too poor to afford transportation. Katrina would have killed and injured people whatever the precautions taken. However, it seems that everyone underestimate the force and destructive power of Katrina and overestimate the water defence of New Orleans.

Whatever the causes and wherever the blame may lie, it has been a disaster, both a natural one and an administrative one, and for the watching world, a time to give support. I hope the people of the affected areas can find the strength to get back on their feet again soon. New Orleans has always been a city on my "Places to Visit" list (this also includes Yellowstone Park and the Dakota Badlands in case you were wondering- I've already ticked off San Francisco and NYC).


Just some early morning ramblings.

[evil_twin]

OOOOOPS EVILTWIN IS HAVING A BREAK DOWN......YOU HEAR ONLY WHAT YOU WANT, MAYBE ITS YOU......NO ONES HURT ME, I BELONG TO THE HUMAN RACE SON, JOIN ME, YOU MIGHT JUST LEARN SOMETHING.....

......YES, RACISM EXSISTS IN ALL RACES ESPECIALLY BLACKS ON BLACKS, THEY ARE KILLING EACHOTHER OVER SHIT LIKE SNEAKERS....

It's written right there in plain fucking english.
That was like your 3rd post about defending the white man and Bush and immediately it went into crimes committed by blacks.

I just tired of ignorant corwards that hide behind the internet to make stupid points.