Name and Gender Change

[Shining Star]

Federal government by and large will go with what gender is listed on one's BC. Problems can arise if one was already issued a passport or SS# say, under a male name and gender and are asking to have it changed, or cannot provide a certified BC listing "female" as gender. Then you have to provide certified copies of the surgical record, etc (for a passport), and what ever other documents various agencies request.

While having a passport that states "female" even when pre-op can be seen as the holy grail, remember things have changed in this post 9/11 world, especially regarding things such as air travel.

The TSA is moving more towards "X-ray" body scanners that basically can see one "nude", and in such detail private parts (or absence thereof) can be made out. Now am not saying all TSA agents will make a stink if they think a "man" has a passport that says female, but legally they do have the right to make certian the passport matches the person.

[melissacarter]

The TSA is moving more towards "X-ray" body scanners that basically can see one "nude", and in such detail private parts (or absence thereof) can be made out.

good then they can see my tits ass and hips along with my dick

[blckhaze]

Good luck Jules.



And we still hate your hubby.

[SarahG]

melissacarter is correct about federal agencies being different. A preop that CA has said to be female legally, won't be in the eyes of the feds (as far as SSA and passports go) until after SRS.

With respect Sarah you keep saying this but I beg to differ. I just had my social security ammended to female gender on a federal level. This was accomplished with one of those "deceptive" doctor's letter stating I had "feminization" surgery. Of course presenting well, being well mannered and passing (dare I say) help.

They did not ask me to drop my drawers.

To add some clarity to the subject, I did some googling today and the policies of the SSA & Homeland Security, when dealing with trans people- are not on either of their websites.

However, I did find a 2007 page from the NCFTE that states the following:

For Social Security:

Gender Change

To change your name in the Social Security Administration (SSA) records, provide the following at your local SSA office. All documents need to be originals or certified copies by the issuing agency. You can find the nearest SSA office at the Social Security website.

1. A completed Form SS-5 “Application For A Social Security Card.”
2. Proof of identity. One or more identity documents in your new legal name, such as, a driver license, passport, state-issued ID, etc. These documents must show your current legal name.
3. A letter from the surgeon or attending physician verifying sex change surgery has been completed. This letter must clearly identify you as the person changing their gender marker.
4. If you are a U.S. citizen and have not previously established citizenship with SSA, you will need to present a birth certificate, U.S. passport, or other proof of citizenship. Note: your birth certificate or other document establishing citizenship does not need to show your current name or gender. However, you will need to show proof that you are the same person, such as with a court order for legal name change.
5. If you are a non-citizen, you will need to show documents proving your immigration status and work eligibility, such as, Form I-551, I-94 with unexpired foreign passport, and/or work permit card (I-766 or I-688B). Because there are many types and combinations of qualifying documents for non-citizens, you should call SSA to confirm that your documents qualify.

For Passports:

Gender Change

You must submit:

1. Evidence of citizenship and proof of identity (for example, a driver's license or birth certificate).
2. A photo that is a good likeness of current appearance.
3. A fee of $85 to have a new passport issued.
4. Medical documentation stating that you have had or are planning on having surgery.

For Post Op transpeople, this documentation consists of a letter from a surgeon or hospital that performed surgery, a detailed statement from a medical surgeon regarding the surgery and name change evidence, if applicable (for example, a certified copy of a court document).

For Pre Op transpeople, this documentation consists of a detailed statement from a surgeon with whom you have plans to undergo surgery. This statement must outline the plans for your surgery. If you are traveling to undergo it, the passport agency will issue a temporary passport valid for one year.

All of this information should be mailed to the following address:
Charleston Passport Center
Attention: Amendments
1269 Holland Street
Charleston, SC 29405

There is a tendency for the State Department to “endorse” or simply “stamp over” the previous gender marker on a passport. The stamp states that a change of sex has taken place on a particular date. NCTE has been told that this happens if the passport is valid for a few more years. The Agency does not like to reissue passports so they simply use the stamp. The National Passport Information Center suggests that to get around this, you should start over completely by requesting a new passport.

That said basically:

For SSA you need to be postop for them to change the sex status on file. This is usually not a problem for most people however, since social security cards do not and have not listed sex status on them. Both my original SSN (issued in the 80s) and my current one (after I changed my name) do not list anything other than my legal name, and my SSN. That's it. So you could show a SS card to an employer and not out yourself. BUT, there is always the risk that the SSA will out you (the Bush Admin did this for a couple years- basically the SSA computers put on a filter so any form the employer sends in listing you as female, when the SSA lists you as male, will automatically send your employer a letter saying "please correct your letters, this person is really male"). I don't consider this to be a likely concern (especially with a democrat in the office), and even when Bush did it- it was done intermittently (not everyone got outted, but a lot did).

For a passport you can get a female passport when preop -BUT- it requires telling the feds that you have a specific surgeon who will be performing SRS, and roughly when that will happen. The passport they issue you is only good for a year, because it is TEMPORARY. If you're not planning on SRS anytime soon, you do not qualify... and the letter you send the feds to show "you intend to get srs" must be written by the surgeon you have in mind- simply saying "I plan to get SRS" isn't enough, it's not even enough if your shrink/therapist writes you a letter. I suppose if you could find a surgeon to write you a letter every year, you'll have no problems using temp passports indefinitely... assuming they never get wise to it.

I do have to wonder about the SSA however. The policy is not online, at least not on their website or any other federal gov website. If it is as hard for their employees to find the policy as it is for people googling for it online, my guess is that it would be common for SSA employees to guestimate on what is needed for a SSA gender change. When I got my new DL (after my name change), the clerk at the DMV thought you have to be postop to get a DL with a female name I had to wait for a half an hour as she called the national office, and then the judge who approved my name change petition (thankfully he was at the court at the time to explain yes, i really can have a DL under my legal name ). I would imagine it would be common for bureaucrats at the SSA, especially if they haven't been explicitly told otherwise, to ask for full surgery notes when a simple letter will do. In any case, it is pretty clear both agencies are asking for you to be POSTOP if you want perniment (not temporary) documentation.

[the_corner]

The TSA is moving more towards "X-ray" body scanners that basically can see one "nude", and in such detail private parts (or absence thereof) can be made out. Now am not saying all TSA agents will make a stink if they think a "man" has a passport that says female, but legally they do have the right to make certian the passport matches the person.

You have the right to refuse the 3d X-ray. If you refuse the X-ray, an agent will search through your body using the standard method, with the hands. The X-ray is supposedly faster.... and no, you will not be sent to a private room for a cavity search.

[melissacarter]

melissacarter is correct about federal agencies being different. A preop that CA has said to be female legally, won't be in the eyes of the feds (as far as SSA and passports go) until after SRS.

With respect Sarah you keep saying this but I beg to differ. I just had my social security ammended to female gender on a federal level. This was accomplished with one of those "deceptive" doctor's letter stating I had "feminization" surgery. Of course presenting well, being well mannered and passing (dare I say) help.

They did not ask me to drop my drawers.

To add some clarity to the subject, I did some googling today and the policies of the SSA & Homeland Security, when dealing with trans people- are not on either of their websites.

However, I did find a 2007 page from the NCFTE that states the following:

For Social Security:

Gender Change

To change your name in the Social Security Administration (SSA) records, provide the following at your local SSA office. All documents need to be originals or certified copies by the issuing agency. You can find the nearest SSA office at the Social Security website.

1. A completed Form SS-5 “Application For A Social Security Card.”
2. Proof of identity. One or more identity documents in your new legal name, such as, a driver license, passport, state-issued ID, etc. These documents must show your current legal name.
3. A letter from the surgeon or attending physician verifying sex change surgery has been completed. This letter must clearly identify you as the person changing their gender marker.
4. If you are a U.S. citizen and have not previously established citizenship with SSA, you will need to present a birth certificate, U.S. passport, or other proof of citizenship. Note: your birth certificate or other document establishing citizenship does not need to show your current name or gender. However, you will need to show proof that you are the same person, such as with a court order for legal name change.
5. If you are a non-citizen, you will need to show documents proving your immigration status and work eligibility, such as, Form I-551, I-94 with unexpired foreign passport, and/or work permit card (I-766 or I-688B). Because there are many types and combinations of qualifying documents for non-citizens, you should call SSA to confirm that your documents qualify.

For Passports:

Gender Change

You must submit:

1. Evidence of citizenship and proof of identity (for example, a driver's license or birth certificate).
2. A photo that is a good likeness of current appearance.
3. A fee of $85 to have a new passport issued.
4. Medical documentation stating that you have had or are planning on having surgery.

For Post Op transpeople, this documentation consists of a letter from a surgeon or hospital that performed surgery, a detailed statement from a medical surgeon regarding the surgery and name change evidence, if applicable (for example, a certified copy of a court document).

For Pre Op transpeople, this documentation consists of a detailed statement from a surgeon with whom you have plans to undergo surgery. This statement must outline the plans for your surgery. If you are traveling to undergo it, the passport agency will issue a temporary passport valid for one year.

All of this information should be mailed to the following address:
Charleston Passport Center
Attention: Amendments
1269 Holland Street
Charleston, SC 29405

There is a tendency for the State Department to “endorse” or simply “stamp over” the previous gender marker on a passport. The stamp states that a change of sex has taken place on a particular date. NCTE has been told that this happens if the passport is valid for a few more years. The Agency does not like to reissue passports so they simply use the stamp. The National Passport Information Center suggests that to get around this, you should start over completely by requesting a new passport.

That said basically:

For SSA you need to be postop for them to change the sex status on file. This is usually not a problem for most people however, since social security cards do not and have not listed sex status on them. Both my original SSN (issued in the 80s) and my current one (after I changed my name) do not list anything other than my legal name, and my SSN. That's it. So you could show a SS card to an employer and not out yourself. BUT, there is always the risk that the SSA will out you (the Bush Admin did this for a couple years- basically the SSA computers put on a filter so any form the employer sends in listing you as female, when the SSA lists you as male, will automatically send your employer a letter saying "please correct your letters, this person is really male"). I don't consider this to be a likely concern (especially with a democrat in the office), and even when Bush did it- it was done intermittently (not everyone got outted, but a lot did).

For a passport you can get a female passport when preop -BUT- it requires telling the feds that you have a specific surgeon who will be performing SRS, and roughly when that will happen. The passport they issue you is only good for a year, because it is TEMPORARY. If you're not planning on SRS anytime soon, you do not qualify... and the letter you send the feds to show "you intend to get srs" must be written by the surgeon you have in mind- simply saying "I plan to get SRS" isn't enough, it's not even enough if your shrink/therapist writes you a letter. I suppose if you could find a surgeon to write you a letter every year, you'll have no problems using temp passports indefinitely... assuming they never get wise to it.

I do have to wonder about the SSA however. The policy is not online, at least not on their website or any other federal gov website. If it is as hard for their employees to find the policy as it is for people googling for it online, my guess is that it would be common for SSA employees to guestimate on what is needed for a SSA gender change. When I got my new DL (after my name change), the clerk at the DMV thought you have to be postop to get a DL with a female name I had to wait for a half an hour as she called the national office, and then the judge who approved my name change petition (thankfully he was at the court at the time to explain yes, i really can have a DL under my legal name ). I would imagine it would be common for bureaucrats at the SSA, especially if they haven't been explicitly told otherwise, to ask for full surgery notes when a simple letter will do. In any case, it is pretty clear both agencies are asking for you to be POSTOP if you want perniment (not temporary) documentation.

Wow Sarah that is an awesome piece of research!

This information is so important I'm printing it out for my name/gender change file (all that is left for me now is passport and birth certificate). Thank you.

[bobjones17]

Good luck! Hope all goes well!!

[T Oracle]

Hi There : )

First of all, Congradulations!

And second, in the state of california, you will need some proof from a doctor saying that you had SRS in order to change your gender on your birth certificate with social security.

However, you can still get your name changed to whatever you like. ALSO, you can goto the DMV and request the DL328 Form to change your name and gender on your Drivers License/ID without proof of SRS from a doctor.

Good Luck : )

PS. I would recommend the Hollywood DMV and LA Superiour Court House. You will have no hastle getting this taken care of.

i have my surgeons affidavit or declaration that i had SRS already, and yes, after i get my new name and gender i will be getting my drivers license and social security with my new name and gender. i am not a resident of LA or Hollywood so my court is here in Orange County. What are the questions that the judge asks? so i can prepare and practice in front of the mirror. lol

Obviously, I cannot say whether you have or have not had SRS. I can only report that you, personally, have reported as to telling 'a white lie' as to having SRS when you had not.

And, on the question of your marriage, I personally posted a thread in www.tgirltalk.com/forums , about your realtionship with a member of tgirltalk which was 100% supportive of you.

I hope what you are doing is finding a way to use the California court in a way that has been denied in Manila.

You will know about Rommel Silverio, Veronica Deposy. Both totally fucked up legal cases.

Please, please, please tell me what you are doing moves things forward?

[SarahG]

When I got my new DL (after my name change), the clerk at the DMV thought you have to be postop to get a DL with a female name I had to wait for a half an hour as she called the national office, and then the judge who approved my name change petition (thankfully he was at the court at the time to explain yes, i really can have a DL under my legal name ). I would imagine it would be common for bureaucrats at the SSA, especially if they haven't been explicitly told otherwise, to ask for full surgery notes when a simple letter will do. In any case, it is pretty clear both agencies are asking for you to be POSTOP if you want perniment (not temporary) documentation.

Oops, brain freeze-

I meant to say head STATE office, not national office, DMV's don't have a national office LOL.

The info is a year old, I cannot say if there have been any changes since then, or if there will be new changes once the new president admin (assuming Obama can prove he is a natural born citizen that is) takes charge. I would imagine any fees listed would be the most likely to change from year to year.

[ottorocket]

Best of luck J...hope you're doing well