Fellow Brothas... Should transsexuals on here...

[4ever_ngt]

Um anybody forget we're all on a site called "Hung Angels" ??? .. doesn't that make us all fags by definition...maybe i'm wrong here but last time I checked a dick was still a dick...I say just be a lil more secure in ones man or womanhood & not let labels box one's self in

[sockmonkey]

No offense to the thick skin crowd, but let me go find a way to offend you, and see what you do about it when I tell you to go grow a thicker skin.

Faggot is as loaded a word as any other in existence. People get beat to death over being identified as a 'faggot', it has only a very limited bit to do with being secure in your sexuality.

I can cause a person a lot of social and financial harms with a few nasty words under the right circumstances. This isn't like calling someone a dick or an asshole. Those are clearly personal, and don't carry any other stigma, rightly applied or otherwise.

Faggot isn't even the same as saying someone is gay. It is a derogatory term, it implies a person is lesser and it is okay to attack them. In some circles it becomes almost mandatory.

Okay. First, as a preface: I believe that through the impersonality of the internet and the coarsening of society in general (which I'm not 100% opposed to, as I tend to be coarse myself), people (particularly, the sort of people who actively participate on message boards) are starting to lost their sense of decorum that makes polite society at least superficially polite. The by-product of this is a knives-out flavour of hyperbole, bombast, and exercises in self-esteem through the ridicule of others (the difference in this case being, it's not hidden behind the translucent veil of polite society). Basically, people like to be dicks on the internet because there's nobody around to punch them in the mouth for being such a dick.

But, are sentiments that are deserving of ridicule enough excuse to ridicule the person that espouses them? That's not for me to make a moral judgement on, necessarily, but we've all got the free speech to do just that. Everybody can identify someone who's being a dick, or someone who's being an asshole; if you don't believe either word holds negative stigmas, then you're obviously very fond of dicks and assholes (which is perfectly apropos for this board).

Personally, it doesn't matter what kind of insult you cook up; the day I get offended by somebody or something I read on the internet is the day I go hang it up. Save your sensitivities for things that matter and people that actually have an effect on your life; otherwise, you're just being a pussy.

That phrase, "being a pussy," would be loaded with sexist connotation, were it not for the fact that being in the public vernacular has shifted its semantic value. I know scads of gay people, most of who wouldn't hesitate to toss around the word fag. Why is this? Because "being a fag" is just "being a fag" these days, same as "being a pussy" is just "being a pussy." In the vernacular, these words don't have the sexist and homophobic connotations that they do in a literal sense.

How can that be? That can be answered with another question: is "nigga" the same word as "nigger"? Anybody that's been paying attention over the last few decades would agree that it's absolutely not the same word; although they are in all reality the same word, the vernacular has assigned a different connotation and context when you drop the "r" off the end.

I have a black friend who one night at the bar vowed to me that he'd never get upset again if somebody used the n-word on him. His rationale was that (in his words), "I don't act like no nigger, man. I'm a grown-ass man, I got a job, I make child support, and I'm proud of who I am." So I looked at him and said, "Nigger, I'm'a buy you a beer!" Then we got drunk and made fun of people all night.

Just like the larger majority of gay people I know don't get insulted by the word fag. The truth of the matter is, most people I know who could spend all day being insulted have decided that they've got way more worthwhile things to do with their time. And really, isn't that the sort of reaction that makes the most sense? Even if you're the sort of person that gets insulted really, really easily, doesn't it make the most sense to maybe be irked for like half a second, and then go find something more productive to do than wasting time by feeling slighted? Think about it: instead of licking all those paper cuts, you could be having sex with some man, woman, or some variation thereof that actually matters to you.

I guess all I'm really trying to say is, "stop being such a pussy-faggot and go get yourself some pussy, faggot."


Cheers.

[sockmonkey]

edit: i think i got redundant on myself for a second or two here.

[tsmandy]

Faggot is not necessarily a derogatory term guys. I have lots of fag friends, who identify as fags. Get hip to the gay lingo already. Fag and Dyke and queer are only insults to straight people who are freaking out about the things that turn them on. Queer people, we don't give a shit if you call us names, because those names are a source of pride for us.

I don't know what Jen means by saying fag, but the fact that it freaks you guys out so much says alot more about you than it does about her.

bullshit and u know it...name calling is just as much, if not more, about intent, and the intent was to insult...and thus shameful considering the forum and name caller...

stop pretending like theres no looking down on bttms and fags amongst the girls here...while some may preach they dont care, just take a whiff of the average girls ridiculous assertion that she is into straight guys only hehe and u know good and well, that while she may top him good and well, she portrays a feminine air of superiority towards the girls who are more tops and their faggy boys...

enough bullshit, saying u have fag friends doesnt mean calling someone who doesnt label himself as a flaming fag isnt meant to insult...i have pregnant friends, doesnt mean that i can hurl the term around at any woman i like...

I don't think I'm pretending anything, and you might want to do your research before you preach to me. I've been an out queer activist for a long time, and I'm not even remotely straight identified or interested in straight people for that matter.

I really don't give a fuck what Jen Justice calls you guys, if you don't like what she has to say ignore her.

You can call me a faggot, you can call me a cunt, you can call me a whore, you can call me a dyke, and it won't bother me, because I think that faggots, cunts, whores, dykes are beautiful. Just don't call me straight.

My whole point is that if you weren't so conflicted about what turns you on, then it wouldn't bother you if someone called you a faggot. But you are all so desperate to be normal, and to cling to your straightness that you freak out when someone suggests you might be using tranny's to stay in the closet. Get a grip and move on already.

"heterosexuality is the opium of the masses" -Stereototal-

[sockmonkey]

You can call me a faggot, you can call me a cunt, you can call me a whore, you can call me a dyke, and it won't bother me, because I think that faggots, cunts, whores, dykes are beautiful. Just don't call me straight.

Y'know, for a faggotcuntwhoredyke, I think you're keen. You seem like a perfectly nice gal; pleased to make your cyber-acquaintance.

Anyhow. You're spot on with your analysis herein; I can't figure why people are so neurotically narrow-minded when it comes to matters of insult v. acceptance. I figure it must be a tiring existence to worry so constantly about how people define you according to their own twisted little paradigms. Of all the shits to give, that one's gotta be pretty far down on my list.

[tsntx]

[quote="sockmonkey"]

Faggot is not necessarily a derogatory term guys. I have lots of fag friends, who identify as fags. Get hip to the gay lingo already. Fag and Dyke and queer are only insults to straight people who are freaking out about the things that turn them on. Queer people, we don't give a shit if you call us names, because those names are a source of pride for us.

I don't know what Jen means by saying fag, but the fact that it freaks you guys out so much says alot more about you than it does about her.[/quote]


I just said something to this extent here.

b-i-ngo b-i-ngo b-i-ngo and bingo was the name-o

fags!

[justatransgirl]

Well said Mandy.

LOL,
TS Jamie

[tsntx]

wow all the guys that answered yes are walking hypocrites...so you are attracted to men then? lol

which means they are .....


ALL TOGETHER NOW....


FAGS
rotflmao


geez for a bunch of "straight" men yall sure are fucked up lil girls

[Justawannabe]

Sorry, guess I just can't agree.

So much was wrong with Socks response I just can't begin. I tried two or three times but it's all wasted.

Summary...

Bullying folks on fundamental aspects of character or biology is wrong, and any attempt to justify it by claiming 'they shouldn't care' or 'they're just weak' is a sad statement and I thought we'd moved beyond that. If the statement isn't provably true just adds to the fire.

Mandy's take is much more accurate but misses the point that it's not about the person making the statement, but how it's likely to be received that determines if it's hurtful. Just because your okay being called something doesn't in any way affect whether someone else is okay with it.

A lot like being punched. If I'm okay with being punched that doesn't mean it's okay for me to punch others, or right for me to expect it to be okay with them.

Good ol' Socks needs to understand that context specific terms like 'fag' and 'nigga' are only okay within their own limited group and when used in an inclusive way.

Best all, hope no one figures you how to hurt you and piles on...

Sean

[sockmonkey]

As to socks argument that we all 'being a pussy' who object to the way the term is being slung around. Well, that same argument is the defense of bullies everywhere. Eventually someone has to get up and shoot someone to get across that emotional attacks are just as damaging as physical ones.

Trying to say 'I'm not doing anything wrong because he's just a wimp' is not a defense. It's an incite to riot, to attack, to prove that the person is strong enough to never have to suffer that way again. I may not know the terms or activities that would hurt you, and so cannot demonstrate that verbal assaults or actions can be just as bad, but they exist and you'll be lucky if no one ever finds them.

No, you're missing my point entirely. The idea is to wrest the perceived harm of the word from the bullies (real bullies, not people who talk shit on internet message boards); it's not about reclaiming the word, but rather about reclaiming the emotion to which it's attached. Or, in the vernacular, "in order not to be a pussy, you have to stop being such a pussy" (I say this with all intended Zen-like simplicity). In my experience, clinging to such sensitivities ill-prepares you for the slings and arrows of daily life, verbal or otherwise. Since the permeance of political correctness, it seems like successive generations are severely lacking in such coping skills; drastic acts of revenge for incidences of bullying are a relatively recent phenomenon. Where were the school shootings in the 1940's?

And no, I'm afraid there's nothing you or any other random stranger can say to me in order to do me harm. I save my emotional reactions for people who have an impact on my life, the people I care about, which is absolutely as it should be. The "I'm rubber, you're glue" approach would also be acceptable. If somebody tries to insult me, I'm typically inclined to chuckle a bit and just follow the assumption that they're some kind of asshole, which is commonly the case.

I read this statement,

I may not know the terms or activities that would hurt you, and so cannot demonstrate that verbal assaults or actions can be just as bad, but they exist and you'll be lucky if no one ever finds them.

and immediately thought to myself, "what're you gonna do, call me names?" That kind of shit didn't bother me on the playground, and it sure as shit doesn't bother me now. Like the anecdote about my black friend, you don't have to reclaim the word, the meaning, or even the context or the intent; the emotion and your reaction to it is where the insult begins and ends. Somebody can't insult me if I don't feel insulted. Like Captain Planet always said, "The power is yours!"