Too Much Surgery

[Jhellis978]

Good points Allanah.

Allow me to post the following rebuttal.

I've always contended that gender is a state of mind, not a physical apparatus between your legs. A "transsexual" to me is a person who seeks to align their mental state with their physical state. Normally, transsexuals seeks to distance their past from their current life as much as possible and live an unassuming life as a female.

When I see a transsexual with a ton of surgery, or even a genetic girl with a ton surgery, I understand that the lady is trying to capitolize on her feminine features. We live in a consumer culture where profit drives everything. The "too much surgery" girl places profit over the prospect of living a normal life--their appearance is so overdone that they look like a porn star.

As I said before, too each their own. There is nothing wrong with the "porn star" look, but you have to question the intent of a girl who goes for that look.

I've always said there is a HUGE difference between a "shemale" and a "transsexual". For one, a "transsexual" would never flaunt what was between her legs. To her, that apparatus represents a birth defect and like any other birth defect she wants it removed. A "shemale" on the other hand defines itself--a transgendered person, exhibiting and enjoying charecteristics of the male and female body. The "shemale" often opts for more facial surgery and body modifications to bring their appearance to an almost caricature state.

One is NOT greater than the other; it's merely a matter of semantics.

[lmw222001]

I've always said there is a HUGE difference between a "shemale" and a "transsexual". For one, a "transsexual" would never flaunt what was between her legs. To her, that apparatus represents a birth defect and like any other birth defect she wants it removed. A "shemale" on the other hand defines itself--a transgendered person, exhibiting and enjoying charecteristics of the male and female body. The "shemale" often opts for more facial surgery and body modifications to bring their appearance to an almost caricature state.

One is NOT greater than the other; it's merely a matter of semantics.


That Has To Be One Of The Stupidest Fucking Things I've Ever Read On Here

[Jhellis978]

I've always said there is a HUGE difference between a "shemale" and a "transsexual". For one, a "transsexual" would never flaunt what was between her legs. To her, that apparatus represents a birth defect and like any other birth defect she wants it removed. A "shemale" on the other hand defines itself--a transgendered person, exhibiting and enjoying charecteristics of the male and female body. The "shemale" often opts for more facial surgery and body modifications to bring their appearance to an almost caricature state.

One is NOT greater than the other; it's merely a matter of semantics.


That Has To Be One Of The Stupidest Fucking Things I've Ever Read On Here

Let me emphasize, I'm not trying to disrespect anyone with this thought process.

Like I said, it's all semantics.

[Evilhomer]

You said it correctly- to each her own. And you should not try to dictate to anyone what they should look like based on your own fantasies or attraction. You should apply ypurself to those that you find attraction and let those of us who endulge in cosmetic surgery to please our selves and idealize our own ideals of beauty be.

And he is entitled to his opinion..I don't see how he is trying to dictate how or what someone can do with there body ...He simply stated that he prefrers Dany's old nose and that some people go way overboard with the surgery and wind up looking fake ..which in My Opinion, I agree ..no Im not saying what kind of surgery or how much you should have ...but the proof is in the pics for some of them... thats it, my 2 cents..

not you Allanah...your still hot ...
[/quote]

[Jhellis978]

Who the fuck are you too judge how much surgery people should have?

I had my name changed from "Jesus" to "Josh" a few years back.


Since that time, I quit judging people.

I apologize if my post came off as sounding judgemental, that was not my intent.

[Evilhomer]

Dude don't worry about him he's obviously a kisss ass idiot ...everybody is Judgemental about other people...Just pick a thread ...as long as you don't get nasty or personal...

[MacShreach]

The "too much surgery" girl places profit over the prospect of living a normal life--their appearance is so overdone that they look like a porn star.

These girls ARE porn stars-- huge porn stars. I suppose the level of protest when they change their look is a measure of their popularity, so maybe they shouldn't complain. Any model or actress will tell you, and I don't just mean porn stars, that they are in a hugely competitive industry that values youth and a certain stereotypical beauty over everything else. If that's bad enough for GG models and actresses, it must be a gozillion times worse for TS's who, after all, are constantly struggling with their appearances anyway in order to appear convincing.

Somebody--some French film director (it would be) said that TS women burned their lives up for ten years of glory, and I think that may be sadly true. I tell myself I like a natural look myself, but even I know I'm kidding myself--I mean just how natural? Five o'clock shadow natural? When you are talking about someone who will change their gender to live their dream, having your nose straightened doesn't seem that much of a big deal really..........

I mean it's all hall of mirrors stuff anyway, what you see is not what you get. That lovely paradox, that quintessential feminity that was created, not born, and created by the person expressing it is certainly the major attraction of TS women for me. Let me put it this way; I prefer fake blondes to real ones. Why? Not because I have anything against real blondes, but because I love that theatre of eroticism, that idea of self-transformation. TS girls take that innocent, delicious deception to a really thrilling level, which is a major turn-on. Going out with a passable TS when no-one but you knows is exciting on a whole range of levels from the physical to the psychological, like being out with a GG that you know is wearing no knickers but nobody else does, only a few orders of magnitude greater. You can appreciate the presence of the penis without getting crazy about it.

A lot of the guys on this list appear to be anally-obsessed "bottoms" in hopeless denial of their own sexuality, so I don't think this is on their wavelength anyway, so WTF. I wonder, do these men, whenever they look at a GG, go "She's got a cunt! Wow!" I mean, does the cunt define the g-girl? Like hell. And the cock does not define the t-girl either. I don't know what does, but transformation as an end in itself seems to be part of it.

So when one of them uses every technique at her disposal to become efffectively a living work of art, because that is what the expression of such a radical self-image is, I have to say, great, and clap my hands in appreciation.

And BTW I genuinely think Dany looks lovely. The change in her look has as much to do with changes in her make-up and eye-colour as the really quite minor physical changes. And Allannah and Gia and all the others too. Never lose faith, girls, some of us appreciate it

[Ecstatic]

I've always contended that gender is a state of mind, not a physical apparatus between your legs. A "transsexual" to me is a person who seeks to align their mental state with their physical state. Normally, transsexuals seeks to distance their past from their current life as much as possible and live an unassuming life as a female.

I almost agree with you, Jhellis, except that I'd say transsexuals "seeks to align their physical state with their mental state," not the other way round, and I suspect that's what you meant. The other way around would mean denying and repressing their actual gender identification, as opposed to altering their body to realize their gender id as fully as possible and desirable (though for some that does not mean srs).

When I see a transsexual with a ton of surgery, or even a genetic girl with a ton surgery, I understand that the lady is trying to capitolize on her feminine features. We live in a consumer culture where profit drives everything. The "too much surgery" girl places profit over the prospect of living a normal life--their appearance is so overdone that they look like a porn star.

Aesthetically, I personally agree that some girls (and I include GGs as well as TGs here) go too far with surgery, not that I would judge them on this. But also all too often I think the results are the surgeon's fault, not the girl's: botched surgeries which to a greater or a lesser degree deform the woman, or require follow-up surgery to correct.

I disagree on the generalization that these ladies are "trying to capitolize on [their] feminine features": some are, but others--probably most--are not so much capitalizing--seeking "profit over the prospect of living a normal life"--as trying to do just that, live a normal life as the woman they feel to be inside. Porn stars and escorts are trying to capitalize, yes, but they only represent a small percentage of transgendered women, and for many of them--maybe most of them--the temporalry profit goal is only in itself a means to an end.

I've always said there is a HUGE difference between a "shemale" and a "transsexual". For one, a "transsexual" would never flaunt what was between her legs. To her, that apparatus represents a birth defect and like any other birth defect she wants it removed. A "shemale" on the other hand defines itself--a transgendered person, exhibiting and enjoying charecteristics of the male and female body. The "shemale" often opts for more facial surgery and body modifications to bring their appearance to an almost caricature state.

One is NOT greater than the other; it's merely a matter of semantics.

I think it's a lot more than semantics, else there would be no difference. I think you've identified two types of transsexuals, but there are more, and such binary classifications are too limited. In fact, I think the umbrella term is transsexual, and shemale is one of maybe a dozen different types of transsexuals. Some girls are proud of that label, others hate it. Vicki Richter has posted a good list of various types of transsexuals, for example.

[AllanahStarrNYC]

lmw- I don' think your charaterizations of a "transsexual" and "shemale" are accurate. A transsexual is a transsexual, and shemale is a term made up that was probably done so in a less clinical way to help people under stand. In fact, the "shemale" was the title of Coccinelle's book in the 60's and SHE was already a post op transsexual. I suspect the term was later adopted by the adult indusry to do the same later.

There are several transsexuals who have "exibited" the shemale qualities you claim and then have gone to have SRS. Saying that a true transsexual would never exibit her unmodified genital is ridiculous. There are many "shemales" th at fall in your cateegory that do not have a lot of facial surgery or end up looking like charichatures.

EXAMPLE: Amanda Lepore- she is a sex change and looks like a cartoon character.

Personal aesthetics, gender, career, and sexuality, are not the same thing. I know I was born this way and this may a transitonal phase in my life at the moment. I may end up with SRS- so hence your theory, in my belief, living this way for 10 years , and seeing all kinds of transsexuals- even those who were not true transsexuals and went back to being men, is not true.

[Jhellis978]

lmw- I don' think your charaterizations of a "transsexual" and "shemale" are accurate. A transsexual is a transsexual, and shemale is a term made up that was probably done so in a less clinical way to help people under stand. In fact, the "shemale" was the title of Coccinelle's book in the 60's and SHE was already a post op transsexual. I suspect the term was later adopted by the adult indusry to do the same later.

There are several transsexuals who have "exibited" the shemale qualities you claim and then have gone to have SRS. Saying that a true transsexual would never exibit her unmodified genital is ridiculous. There are many "shemales" th at fall in your cateegory that do not have a lot of facial surgery or end up looking like charichatures.

EXAMPLE: Amanda Lepore- she is a sex change and looks like a cartoon character.

Personal aesthetics, gender, career, and sexuality, are not the same thing. I know I was born this way and this may a transitonal phase in my life at the moment. I may end up with SRS- so hence your theory, in my belief, living this way for 10 years , and seeing all kinds of transsexuals- even those who were not true transsexuals and went back to being men, is not true.

First, let me take the heat from LMW. I was the one who posted the remarks you objected to, LMW actually refuted them.

Remember Allanah, my comments were not directly aimed at you. I have nothing against you and actually admire you for your ability to carry on a conversation without trying to hustle a dollar. My comments are a direct response to the idea of "how much is too much."

Most transsexuals I know want to complete their transition as quickly as possible. For many, the biggest problem is money. Money is no excuse for an escort or model (again, this is not aimed at you Allanah); I've seen the amount they can bring home in a year.

I do think that if a "working girl" is truly serious about having SRS she will "work" just enough to make the money for transition and any educational training she may desire and then quit the business. But like I said, "working", whether it's "modeling" or "escorting" becomes addictive, like smoking. Money becomes the nicotene.

Instead of quitting, girls are motivate to do more and have more surgery to appeal to a wider audience.

Look at it this way, a girl has a ton of plastic surgery on her face, boobs, ass and hips. She finally completes her transition by having SRS. She decides to quit the business and get a 9-5. All her documents show her as a legal female, but who is going to take her seriously with her plastic looks?

I'm sure some lawyer would hire her as a secretary, but is she going to be able to land a major job without undoing what she had done. Like it or not, employers do base their decisions on looks.

So in the end, there is irony to this tale. Many girls have surgery, to be passable enough to function in society. By having too surgery, they are no longer able to function normally in society.