somebody PLEASE clean up this board!

[loki]

No one deserves something that they have not earned. Be it money,health care or other.

Tell that to the current administration...who are borrowing from future taxpayers to bailout (read buy equity in) institutions that failed in the free market. True Capitalism, aye Spalding?

I never said i was a republican or a bush supporter. I consider bush an idiot. I am an American. And i believe in the fundamental principals of freedom to achieve your dream or to fail while trying.

[DL_NL]

Hahaha, Obama is a socialist... what an idiotic notion. The US apparently has the choice between conservative right-wing or extremely conservative to the point of creepiness. Just compare their views to those of politicians abroad, in Europe for instance.

And don't believe everything the Republican-controlled and US-centred media say. Waching US Election coverage gets me truly scared.

[Oli]

Bush has been the most socialist "Republican" to serve in the White House, perhaps, ever...he has run his presidency more like a democrat would, hence, the rise of the Neoconservative movement and the decline of the GOP...Pat Buchanan nailed it on the "liberal wolf in conservative sheep clothing"...

You've got that backward DT. The Neoconservative movement started, I believe, in the late 80's. They had the GOP converted to their beliefs before 2000. It was a failed idea to begin with (as economists said when the first tax cuts were proposed). Blame goes to the GOP for following an ideology that they didn't understand from the outset.

I never said i was a republican or a bush supporter. I consider bush an idiot. I am an American. And i believe in the fundamental principals of freedom to achieve your dream or to fail while trying.

Unless you have a second account Loki that wasn't directly pointed at you.

[yodajazz]

Hahaha, Obama is a socialist... what an idiotic notion. The US apparently has the choice between conservative right-wing or extremely conservative to the point of creepiness. Just compare their views to those of politicians abroad, in Europe for instance.

And don't believe everything the Republican-controlled and US-centred media say. Waching US Election coverage gets me truly scared.

Me thinks this person knows what they are talking about; both about what socialism is, and what American media does. They took like four words out of Obama's five minute talk, out of context, and came up with a faulty conclusion, "socialism". Graduated income taxes have been around for since 1913, and the US has done pretty well all this time. And graduated taxes are a lot different than socialism. But the word is repeated over and over again until some people are convinced, without bothering to look at facts.

DL_NL is right, it is creepy. Talking heads keeping repeating lies like equating 'liberal' with being a 'baby killer'. It's been said so much, that for some people you say the word 'liberal', and they automatically spit out the word "baby killer". It's a foul lie and actually makes no sense when you understand that 'liberal' is a term with a broad meaning. And 'liberal' is only a relative term. DL_NL is right, liberals here would practically be conservatve over in Europe.

[natina]

OBAMA is not a socialist! you obviously a republican who can not stand for a Democrat to be in the highest office

[yodajazz]

Bush has been the most socialist "Republican" to serve in the White House, perhaps, ever...he has run his presidency more like a democrat would, hence, the rise of the Neoconservative movement and the decline of the GOP...Pat Buchanan nailed it on the "liberal wolf in conservative sheep clothing"...

You've got that backward DT. The Neoconservative movement started, I believe, in the late 80's. They had the GOP converted to their beliefs before 2000. It was a failed idea to begin with (as economists said when the first tax cuts were proposed). Blame goes to the GOP for following an ideology that they didn't understand from the outset.
....

the Reagan administration wasn't Neoconservative, and neither was Bush I, to the best of my knowledge...Reagan was super conservative, and both had excellent knowledge of foreign policy...when Clinton was voted in and served for 8 years, that is when many liberals jumped ship and started the neocon movement, as far as I understand it...

I found "Where the Right Went Wrong" by Pat Buchanan to be very informative and straight talk, down the middle...

I did some reading and discovered that ‘neoconservatism’ is an old term which has change meaning over time and has different meanings in different countries today. So you both have some parts right. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism

My view of it today is the group that advocated for war with Iraq before 9/11. This would include people like Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, and Donald Rumsfeld. The article noted that Bush’s 2002 state of the Union speech had a lot in common with a position paper written by Paul Wolfowitz in 1992, under Bush I.

But here’s what I associate the current neo con movement:

Imperialism and secrecy

John McGowan, professor of humanities at the University of North Carolina, states, after an extensive review of neoconservative literature and theory, that neoconservatives are attempting to build an American empire, seen as successor to the British Empire, its aim being to perpetuate a Pax Americana. As imperialism is largely seen as unacceptable by the American public, neoconservatives do not articulate their ideas and goals in a frank manner in public discourse. McGowan states,[51]

"Frank neoconservatives like Robert Kaplan and Niall Ferguson recognize that they are proposing imperialism as the alternative to liberal internationalism. Yet both Kaplan and Ferguson also understand that imperialism runs so counter to American's liberal tradition that it must... remain a foreign policy that dare not speak its name... While Ferguson, the Brit, laments that Americans cannot just openly shoulder the white man's burden, Kaplan the American, tells us that "only through stealth and anxious foresight" can the United States continue to pursue the "imperial reality [that] already dominates our foreign policy," but must be disavowed in light of "our anti-imperial traditions, and... the fact that imperialism is delegitimized in public discourse"... The Bush administration, justifying all of its actions by an appeal to "national security," has kept as many of those actions as it can secret and has scorned all limitations to executive power by other branches of government or international law."

The George W. Bush administration is accused of political denialism,[52] as well as hundreds of secretive flights with ghost detainees in the extraordinary rendition program in association with the War on Terrorism.

[thx1138]

At the rate Natina is posting I'll give her 2-3 more weeks before she burns out and returns to lurker status. :>) Just a hunch.

[NYBURBS]

I'm going to hope that after Tuesday, when her messiah is elected, she quits spamming the board.