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  1. #21
    Gold Poster SarahG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shining Star
    IIRC, by various laws and court decisions, if one is under any sort of medical treatment prior, the system must provide same.
    Except in Wisconsin, a few girls have gotten temporary injunctions but the law has not been overturned, it's still on the books, the injunctions aren't for ever, and not all girls have been successful at getting them. Google with the information in my prior post if you don't believe me.

    Quote Originally Posted by KiraHarden_TS
    No if your a trans, dont be a stupid ho and break the law, that's what that means you put yours self there. Your not getting hrt due to your own actions

    Why give free hrt to a felon, that money should be going to a law abiding tg anyway.

    Now some of these bitches think the state should pay for srs as well while they do time. Fuck that!
    I was giving estrogen in jail... I got mine lol. Did I deserve it. Fuck no,

    would I cry about it if they had said no.
    No I woudnt

    I would look in mirror and put blaMe where blame is due.

    L
    There are a few problems with that:

    1) A significant chunk of people in our exploding prison population (which, by the way, is a bigger portion of our population then you'll find anywhere else, in any other country- in the world) haven't done anything illegal. Look at how many capital cases have had someone falsely convicted, only to be let free with an "oops, sorry about that" 20 years later. If that can happen with capital cases, you can bet on it being worse for lesser crimes, because the "bar" is lower so to speak. Someone on death row is going to have a better chance at overturning a false conviction then someone doing 10 years on a lesser crime (this is partly why capital punishment is more expensive than life imprisonment, all the legal challenges add up for the taxpayers, fast).

    2) It would be fairly easy to show there is a bias in the system on every level when dealing with trans citizens, whether it be with police, courts, or corrections. A tgirl accused of a crime is not going to get the same sense of justice that Joe the white Plumber would be getting. So any problems already noted (see #1) will be even worse, when the accused is trans.

    3) The cost of HRT is, in the grand scheme of health care programs (be they the VA, medicare, medicaid, or corrections) negligible. Its not going to break any budget by covering it, because trans people make up such a small percentage of the population, and of those who claim they are trans- not everyone is going to get that diagnosis (on the inside or the outside).

    4) Health of inmates is, at least on paper- taken seriously. There are ethical and legal implications when an inmate's health is neglected. A lot of people think its crazy that most states with executions, can't execute those who are ill or having major health problems addressed... this is to discourage situations in which people are beaten, tortured and raped for days, weeks, months or years leading up to an execution (after all, why care if they're just going to be killed anyway? right?). This is the United States, we don't (on paper) do shit like that, and for important reasons. Corrections are ethically and legally required to cater to the health needs of inmates for a nearly infinitely long list of noncritical medical conditions (that is to say; situations where the failure to treat does not result in direct physical death). You don't see prisons being able to go, at least legally; "well, you know what, if I don't give you this then it won't kill you, so shutup and go back to your cell." This scenario doesn't change when the inmate is trans.

    5) Prisons cannot just remove HRT access from trans inmates that have been getting them already on the inside because of double jeopardy concerns. Especially in cases where a plea bargain was made, the inmate made that plea with the understanding that they'd continue to get HRT on the inside (depending on the situation the DA might have even made that part of the deal). Revoking that medication would be comparable to retroactively harshening their sentence, if not also cruel and unusual punishment.

    I realize our country has a "well, if you do something bad- then deal with it" attitude, but that doesn't mean we can do whatever we want to inmates, and it doesn't mean that all inmates are rightfully accused, rightfully convicted, or rightfully punished for their crimes.


    And maybe its easier to withdraw from life
    With all of its misery and wretched lies
    If we're dead when tomorrow's gone
    The Big Machine will just move on
    Still we cling afraid we'll fall
    Clinging like the memory which haunts us all

  2. #22
    "Qui Audet Adipiscitur" 5 Star Poster KiraHarden's Avatar
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    The sky is falling, (he sky is faliing.


    "Of all losses, time is the most irrecoverable for it can never be redeemed.”

    "To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all. "

    "Ladies its not the dress that makes you look fat, its the fat that makes you look fat "

  3. #23
    5 Star Poster brickcitybrother's Avatar
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    I don't know what the reality is like for most but there is a US Supreme Court case about a TS who was placed in prison in Gen Pop. It was a very sad state of affairs.



  4. #24
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    Kira - your comment from your brother made me giggle. A guy who works for me is a member of the AB. He didn't know I was trans when I hired him and I was a little concerned when I found out about him. Then when he found out I was trans, he was like "oh I knew a t-girl girl in prison." Totally cool with it.

    As to the housing thing here's a question for you legal folks.

    I am legally a female. I have a court order AND (soon will have) a birth certificate that says so. I have had an orchiectomy, BUT, I still have a penis. So legally I am a woman without internal sex organs and with a protruding large clitoris.

    So... the question is if I went to jail would they be required to house me in a womens jail? Because I am legally a woman. Or would they put me with the men because I have a penis?

    It gets into an interesting legal definition of who and what makes a woman.

    Hugs,
    TS Jamie



  5. #25
    "Qui Audet Adipiscitur" 5 Star Poster KiraHarden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justatransgirl
    Kira - your comment from your brother made me giggle. A guy who works for me is a member of the AB. He didn't know I was trans when I hired him and I was a little concerned when I found out about him. Then when he found out I was trans, he was like "oh I knew a t-girl girl in prison." Totally cool with it.

    As to the housing thing here's a question for you legal folks.

    I am legally a female. I have a court order AND (soon will have) a birth certificate that says so. I have had an orchiectomy, BUT, I still have a penis. So legally I am a woman without internal sex organs and with a protruding large clitoris.

    So... the question is if I went to jail would they be required to house me in a womens jail? Because I am legally a woman. Or would they put me with the men because I have a penis?

    It gets into an interesting legal definition of who and what makes a woman.

    Hugs,
    TS Jamie
    Good to see you back girl


    "Of all losses, time is the most irrecoverable for it can never be redeemed.”

    "To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all. "

    "Ladies its not the dress that makes you look fat, its the fat that makes you look fat "

  6. #26
    Gold Poster SarahG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justatransgirl
    Kira - your comment from your brother made me giggle. A guy who works for me is a member of the AB. He didn't know I was trans when I hired him and I was a little concerned when I found out about him. Then when he found out I was trans, he was like "oh I knew a t-girl girl in prison." Totally cool with it.

    As to the housing thing here's a question for you legal folks.

    I am legally a female. I have a court order AND (soon will have) a birth certificate that says so. I have had an orchiectomy, BUT, I still have a penis. So legally I am a woman without internal sex organs and with a protruding large clitoris.

    So... the question is if I went to jail would they be required to house me in a womens jail? Because I am legally a woman. Or would they put me with the men because I have a penis?

    It gets into an interesting legal definition of who and what makes a woman.

    Hugs,
    TS Jamie
    Would probably depend on whether that's determined by the actual law of a given state, or the policies of corrections of a given state.

    If the state law determines what prison people go to, then it might boil down to what that state's legal definition of a girl is. If its the correction's policy, then it could be anything including genitalia, even if you're legally female.

    Also just because you're legally female in one state, doesn't mean you would be in another. That's why postops can't marry GB's in all states (and why postop marriages wouldn't be recognized in every state).

    The feds would probably go by what it takes to get a passport, which like with the SSA- would require the full surgery notes; which would reveal you haven't had SRS, and you'd be off to the male fed prisons. Even if you can get the feds to issue you a passport and change their SSA records- using new female documentation from CA, that doesn't mean those changes would hold up to legal scrutiny.

    But for a state, especially a state that says you're legally female knowing you haven't had srs... then in that state specifically, you'd think it would allow you to go to a female prison. BUT, I can also see this being one of those odd cases that would require litigation in order to have a solid answer, even if there are laws outlining what prisons people go to already.

    Thought to ponder: what would the state you're in do with a hermaphrodite? Do they even know (probably not...right?)? The system might not designed to deal with unusual cases.

    Is the sky falling? Well no, but it would suck to be thrown in the male prison, in a state that says you're legally female, for who knows how long while the issue plays out in court. It would suck even more if you didn't do what you were charged with, or if that state, after arresting you- decided that HRT access should be revoked from trans inmates of all types (however I would think that decision would be an unlikely one in CA... yet it is telling that Wisconsin is the only state to try this, and not Tenn or Ohio which are known for bad trans related state policies & laws).

    A lot of states define sex by blood (XX vs XY), in theory you could have someone who is intersexed who has a functional vagina but is XY, all from birth, would have a female BC originally, and whose blood situation wouldnt be known right away (meaning all their documentation is female from the start). Assuming this person doesn't transition as a FtM would, then you have someone who is legally male but has all female genitalia naturally... in texas the person would be legally male, regardless what their paperwork says... I kinda doubt texas would send such an individual to the male prison, but I can see it confusing the hell out of the bureaucrats- forcing the issue into the courts.


    And maybe its easier to withdraw from life
    With all of its misery and wretched lies
    If we're dead when tomorrow's gone
    The Big Machine will just move on
    Still we cling afraid we'll fall
    Clinging like the memory which haunts us all

  7. #27
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    The BBC did a documentary on San Quentin recently....

    From 1.40 Louis interviews a transgendered inmate:



  8. #28
    Platinum Poster JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel's Avatar
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    Before:

    Jail

    After

    Nuff Said


    snɯıʇdo snʇoʇ soʌ oloʌ

  9. #29
    Silver Poster blckhaze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel
    Before:

    Jail

    After

    Nuff Said

    LMAO
    *wonders how many heads this joke will go over, and laughs harder*


    blckhaze- A quickie in the back of a carriage going around Central park south

    RubyTS- been there done that :P

  10. #30
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    Think it would allcome down to what is between one's legs. The potential for disaster by putting any sort of "male" (pardon the term), in a true female population, out weights the emotional concerns of the trannine being with men.

    A "male" in a women's lock-up would be just as much a target or perhaps sought after as a "female" in the male section. Consider also there are just as many females that "hate" trannies as males, so things might not be any easier on that side of the fence. At least in the male population a trannie can find a husband for protection. A pre-op trannie whose member does not function is of no use to any woman, thus has little or no bargining power.

    For the most part it is all going to boil down to gender as defined by visable sexual organs down below. Even if a six-foot two linebacker post-op was put in to lock-up, despite her apperance, she is not going to go in with the male population, because she has a vagina. Either she will go with the females, or other arrangements will have to be made.

    Id means something and nothing as far as various federal and local agencies are concerned. There are many pre-op trannies running around with various IDs saying female, but that hasn't stopped them from being listed as "male" by the court and correctional system. You can research this further by examining the arrest, court and correction records (all of which are public information), and looking for pre-ops known to you and see what gender is listed. Or, simply as any trannie you know that has been busted to show you her papers.



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