Obama, Socialism, & the Great Republican Lie

[NYBURBS]

I've been a member of one of the strongest construction industry unions for 30 years. When you dismiss them as 'mobbed up rackets' you do them a disservice and insult all my union brothers and sisters. When you say that "I'm not telling you that no good has come from them", you damn them with faint praise. I've worked in the gang and as a foreman, general foreman and supervisor. I've also spent time working directly for the Local Union in both an elected and an appointed position. If workers hadn't banded together to bargain as a unit, we would have NEVER had any say in our workplace. I'm not going to try to list all the great things unions have accomplished for American workers. I'm sure you're aware of them - or maybe not. That's what google is for .
Not bad odds, unless you're one of the 4000. Are you suggesting that there is an acceptable industrial deathrate?
It's been going on for years, as companies flee to 'right to work' states to escape unions.

I was a member of a union also, and I was less then impressed with it. That is not saying I disavow your right to associate with whom you choose, but I think it is undeniable that there is a high level of crime and corruption within the unions (especially the trade unions). Btw I noticed that even with all the praise you place upon your union you never once explicitly deny my claim that they tend to suffer from gross corruption or mob influence.

As for the odds, yea it's more or less acceptable. Death is a part of life, shit happens every day. There are people that probably die each year due to accidentally dropping appliances into bathtubs yet I do not advocate banning appliances nor bathtubs. Just as we do not ban cars from the road. Not allowing 300 people into a room meant for 50 is one thing, going on a legislative crusade to try and prevent every conceivable accident is a whole different ball game. There are civil torts to redress private wrongs.

Further, international trade agreements such as NAFTA have done far more to cripple industry here than any type of internal free market. I was not a fan of globalism then and nor am I now. Yet your boy Obama likes globalism, so does McCain, just ponder what your wages will look like in another few international trade agreements. I'm a firm believer in national sovereignty, I just think that internally less government is better government.

PS- I am not opposed to safety regulations in the workplace, I just think the federal government has no right to impose them under the Constitution. It is a matter for the states. Apparently the Supreme Court agreed with that stance also until Comrade Roosevelt came along in the 1930s.

[Cuchulain]

I was a member of a union also, and I was less then impressed with it. That is not saying I disavow your right to associate with whom you choose, but I think it is undeniable that there is a high level of crime and corruption within the unions (especially the trade unions). Btw I noticed that even with all the praise you place upon your union you never once explicitly deny my claim that they tend to suffer from gross corruption or mob influence.

As for the odds, yea it's more or less acceptable. Death is a part of life, shit happens every day. There are people that probably die each year due to accidentally dropping appliances into bathtubs yet I do not advocate banning appliances nor bathtubs. Just as we do not ban cars from the road. Not allowing 300 people into a room meant for 50 is one thing, going on a legislative crusade to try and prevent every conceivable accident is a whole different ball game. There are civil torts to redress private wrongs.

Further, international trade agreements such as NAFTA have done far more to cripple industry here than any type of internal free market. I was not a fan of globalism then and nor am I now. Yet your boy Obama likes globalism, so does McCain, just ponder what your wages will look like in another few international trade agreements. I'm a firm believer in national sovereignty, I just think that internally less government is better government.

I've read news stories about 2 trade unions accused of 'gross corruption or mob influence'. I'm not a member of those unions, so I can't really comment. I have worked with many people in those unions and I can say they are much better off because of their union membership. There are shady characters in all walks of life. I certainly wouldn't compare union corruption to what we've seen on Wall Street or in the WH lately or to what I've seen in company offices over the years. I've never seen much that could be called corruption at the Local Union level because our members, who are pretty well informed, wouldn't tolerate it. When our guys have a beef, they speak up fast and loud. Ignoring all the good that unions have done by accusing them of corruption is a cheap tactic, like saying Obama knew Bill Ayers.

Describing work related deaths as 'shit happens' is pretty cold, lad - and pretty damned offensive too. But I see it would be a waste of time to go off on a 'profits over people' tirade. I'll just say that civil torts are cold comfort to a dead man.

NAFTA sucks. Clinton was another 'lesser of two evils' for me. Obama says he will insist on enforceable labor and enviro protections in all trade deals. We'll see. They don't really affect my union's niche, but they certainly have hurt American workers on the whole. I'm proud of the Dems for refusing a trade agreement with those bastards in Columbia.

I understand that you're a true believer, but for most of those screaming for 'smaller govt' (Repubs), it's just code for no regulation. They have no more regard for the Constitution than George Bush does.

Oh, and three cheers for comrade Roosevelt. (I couldn't resist)

[chefmike]

Oh, and three cheers for comrade Roosevelt. (I couldn't resist)

Hip, hip, hooray!!

[qeuqheeg222]

farm subsidies,non market based real estate appraisals,tariffs,and mad cow boycotts of beef dont sream out free market to me..neither does nixon tampering with the inflation indexes....these schisters and accountants will try to get blood from a stone and the republicans go along regardless of the correctness of the position..as long as the rich fuks stay rich...mortgage backed securities....and talk about a mobbed up racket(unions) what the fuck you think insurance is????

[NYBURBS]

farm subsidies,non market based real estate appraisals,tariffs,and mad cow boycotts of beef dont sream out free market to me..neither does nixon tampering with the inflation indexes....these schisters and accountants will try to get blood from a stone and the republicans go along regardless of the correctness of the position..as long as the rich fuks stay rich...mortgage backed securities....and talk about a mobbed up racket(unions) what the fuck you think insurance is????

Do you think I'm going to argue with you about farm subsidies and the like? I'm no proponent of that type of bullshit either. Turn off the the whole "if he says something bad about dems he must be a repub" approach, because its misplaced in this instance. There's people on both sides of that bench that are trying to fuck everyone else and I have zero use for em.