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Thread: Palin's Secessionist Ties
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10-15-2008 #1
Palin's Secessionist Ties
Palin's Secessionist Ties
Sarah Palin has some explaining to do about her extremist friends and the Alaskan Independence Party, a radical
Sarah Palin: Palling Around With Secessionists
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10-15-2008 #2
Re: Palin's Secessionist Ties
Originally Posted by natina
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10-15-2008 #3
you are too funny
raise the dead?
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10-16-2008 #4
Although the Civil war (heh eh funny name for a war) will prove me wrong but I thought States have the right to succeed.
TES
William
Harmless_pervert
Sorry if i offended ye, no wait I am not sorry, being offended is your problem not mine.
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10-16-2008 #5
States are jurisdictional political entities. A State is not a human being, & therefore has no rights.
"You can pick your friends & you can pick your nose, but you can't wipe your friends off on your saddle."
~ Kinky Friedman ~
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10-17-2008 #6Originally Posted by hippifried
That is more clear and even though the state has no rights if there exist in a state a party that advocates succession then so be it. There are times I personally think WV would be better off on her own.
TES
William
Harmless_pervert
Sorry if i offended ye, no wait I am not sorry, being offended is your problem not mine.
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10-17-2008 #7Originally Posted by Mugai_hentaisha
We're a singular nation, under singular governance, with layers of jurisdictional autonomy granted down through the various local entities for the purpose of making things run smoothly. One Nation, Indivisible!
Now anyone can advocate whatever they want. Well, except for criminal behavior of course. But everyone needs to understand that the United States is not some larger version of the Balkans or the Soviet Union. Even Germany is made up of Prussians, Hessians, & an assortment of other tribal entities. The States that make up the United States don't even have that level of separation. This isn't Mexico, where the various States have different negotiated levels of autonomy. Advocate away. It's great entertainment.
"You can pick your friends & you can pick your nose, but you can't wipe your friends off on your saddle."
~ Kinky Friedman ~
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10-18-2008 #8
these secessionist hate the USA, see the video
these secessionist hate the USA, see the video
Palin's Secessionist Ties
Sarah Palin has some explaining to do about her extremist friends and the Alaskan Independence Party, a radical
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Sarah Palin: Palling Around With Secessionists
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10-18-2008 #9Originally Posted by hippifried
You strike me as a bright guy but I would encourage you to read a bit further into the history of the nation. The civil war did change some things, but even up to about the 1930's the States were the dominant force in this relationship. Since the 1930s there has been a court backed expansion of federal power that has led to this notion of an all powerful national government that simply grants levels of autonomy and jurisdiction to the states.
I am not advocating that a State can just say "peace we're out" but the States most certainly have the power to dissolve the union if enough of them so choose. 2/3 of the State Legislatures so choosing can force Congress to call into session a Constitutional convention. Anything proposed at that convention and later ratified by the States or their convention is binding upon the constitution. That would include amendments allowing the separation of States from the Union.
US Cons Article 5: "on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress;...."
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10-18-2008 #10
You can come up with opinions about the "sovereignty" of the States, but sovereignty isn't recognized in a single official document of the US. I imagine it makes a good speech, but so what if you can't back it up with anything other than another opinion from someone else who doesn't have a real sayso.
Sure we can call another Constitutional Convention, but we won't. God himself couldn't convince 2/3 of the US that it would be a good idea to scrap the Constitution. That's what would happen you know. There's no way to restrict a convention. We already found that out. The original purpose of the first (only) convention was to make necessary changes in the Articles of Confederation so they'd work smoothly. Oops! They didn't last 5 minutes. The first order of business was to relegate the A of C to the dustbin of history. The conventioners knew what they'd done. That's why they built in a workaround for amendments. You'll notice that there wasn't another convention called to add the Bill of Rights.
There was a clamor to convene another convention back in the '80s. Supposedly to add a balanced budget amendment. It started to gain momentum till the evangelicals started unanimously climbing on board. That even scared the republicans, & it'd only been a couple of years since Iran had become a theocracy. Needless to say, the "movement" just faded out.
Like I said: Advocate away. But it's going to take a lot more than a declaration of sovereignty & a bunch of philosophical blather to get the US to cede independence to any of the States. We (the USA) bought Alaska & the Louisiana territories. We just took everything else, aside from the original 13 breakaway Brit colonies. None of them did anything on their own to come into existence. 37 of the 50 states were never sovereign in any sense. They gained statehood from US territorial or commonwealth status, including all but 4 of the Confederate States that got slapped down in the Civil War. The only reason there were separate colonies in the first place was because the Europeans set up a feudal system to settle the new world. They were still all Brits. The only time individual independant sovereignty was accepted was the period between the Brits running tailass & the Convention. Once the Constitution was ratified, all that went out the window.
"You can pick your friends & you can pick your nose, but you can't wipe your friends off on your saddle."
~ Kinky Friedman ~