Obama is finally busted for being a Socialist

[NYBURBS]

It should not be a matter of complaining about the poor being lazy or the rich being lucky. I would be the first to tell you that the very rich in this country skate on their taxes because most of their "wealth" is taxed by capital gains rather than income taxes. They also rely heavily on borrowing so as to avoid certain taxes.

With that said, the idea is that you know best how to live your life and spend your money, just as I do for my own affairs. If you make poor decisions than you should deal with the consequences. The system we have now does not adequately provide for or fix the social ills it purports to correct, yet it taxes average people to a point where it is essentially slavery. There are so many opportunities you or I have missed because of the tax system.

Aside from that, this system is too heavily centralized. We take from Joe in NY to give to Peggy in Delaware (or vice versa), with little thought to regional differences and needs. Also private charities can channel the same benefits, but leaves you the choice as to what to support. I am not advocating abandoning people, in fact I donate my time to a local non-profit. Government comes with the force of law, compelling you to be subservient, and as such it should be greatly limited in its application. We all need to stop looking at this as rich vs poor, and rather view it as free vs enslaved.

[InHouston]

Money is not stolen from me. I know what I make and what I pay. I also know what you call research.

Ha! Let me ask you Trish, do you pay federal income tax?

I bet she doesn't. Let Uncle Sam stick her for 30% of her income and see if she wants to dole out more to the lazy "have nots" of this country.

So being poor equates to being lazy? Rich people are better than poor people? I don't have the word to discribe what a disgusting philosophy that is. Certainly Jesus Christ didn't think that way when he said "blessed are the poor in spirit ...) The founders of this nation had a principle that all men were created equal.

InHouston, you don't know life as well as you think you do. Every human has qualities as well as faults. There are some sociopath criminals, true, but most people are just living with the hand they have been dealt. People with money are not better, than people with less money, they are just lucky, or blessed in other words.

Jesus Christ was in fact the most critical of the people who thought they were better than others, the pharisees. His one act of violence was throwing the 'money changers' out of the temple.

There is another Bible principle, which says to be thankful of what you have. You could have a stroke and be parylized and be unable to enjoy whatever material wealth that you have. I have a son who is autistic, and is classified as mentally handicapped, but he is a good soul full of love and tells me that he loves me most everyday. I have people close to me that are in ill health. But all you punk assed mf's can do is complain about paying taxes. If you cannot appreciate what you have been blessed with, one day it will be taken from you.

If you are lucky enough to get very old, one day one of those poor people you complain so much about will be taking care of you, feeding you and wiping your ass. Then you will appreciate that there are some poor people low enough to take care of you, or it might happen to someone else you love. Life has a way of teaching us the true value of human hands.

But until you learn...

P.S. I am not paying anywhere near 30% taxes, but I would gladly exchange places with someone who does.

Well, gladly send in 30% of your income anyway. Oh, I suppose you feel you need more money to afford that level of income tax. Well there you have it. You're reluctant, as I am, to continue paying in more of your hard earned money.

Being poor does not equate to being lazy. Poverty equates to a lack of money. There are the "have nots" who work hard, and will one day perhaps prosper from their labors or perhaps not. Then there are the lazy "have nots". Those are the people I am referring to.

You presume I don't know much about life? Anyone, such as yourself, who touts the teachings of Jesus Christ as a basis for their case, doesn’t understand much about the universe from which our species spawned from. There is no divine being, nor is there a scheme devised by such a divinity that equalizes the playing field for the human race. The world, where humans are concerned, is an imperfect place filled with imperfect people such as you and I, and all around you is a result of complex carbon chemistry. There are people in the lead, people in the middle, and people taking up the rear in this race of life. I help people in my own ways by inspiring them with reason and sound experience that I’ve gathered from my own life.

Just the other night, there was little black kid about nine years old sweeping the curb in front of a local convenience store. As I pulled in, I inadvertently blocked him from sweeping the curb in front of my vehicle. As I exited my vehicle he politely asked “Excuse me sir, can I please sweep the curb in front of your truck?” I said, “No problem sir.” and enthusiastically moved my vehicle back. As I walked into the store, I marveled at how polite and industrious this little black kid was. As I returned to my vehicle, he waved at me and said “Have a good night sir.” I asked, “Come here for a second. I want to talk to you.” I told him that his hard work, politeness, and good professional manner will take him far in life. I held up a $20 bill and said “I will give you this $20 if you make me a promise. That you never change. You be your own hard-working self like you are now, and to not be influenced by the youth of your generation that dresses and acts ghetto just to be cool and tough.” While telling him this, I had him look around at the gang tags on the walls and fences around the community and to always rise above such groups of people. And that one day he would be a doctor, or a lawyer, or a scientist, or whatever he would like to be. He promised me, and I handed him his well-deserved $20. He is the epitome of what I respect. He is a “have not”, but is working hard and taking initiative that you just don’t see often enough in people his age. Like me when I was young, I was a “have not”, and like me, he probably will not be a “have not” for very long. He doesn’t need handouts like the Democrats want. That spoils people and fosters laziness and apathy. What young people like him need is for adults to take a personal interest, instill some inspiration, and layout some sound guidance for an effective path in life.

And to Oli, is that cogent enough for you? And to correct you Oli, I’m not a Conservative you blithering idiot. If you pay attention to my posts you’d know that. I’m a staunch Atheist who is liberal, conservative, independent, and libertarian all at the same time. I’m all over the map and embrace what is sensible in all areas, reject what is illogical and ineffective, and I don’t subscribe to “think tanks” or “group think” like you do. To do the latter is a clear example of inferior thinking.

[Buzz]

While you're all working yourselves into a tizzy again about taxes and welfare, consider where most of your federal taxes really go:



That's right, nearly 2/3 of all you pay in federal taxes goes to the Pentagon. The US defense budget is more than all the other defense budgets of all the other countries on Earth, combined! Do you really think that the rest of planet Earth is going to attack you simultaneously?

Taxes are going to have to go up to pay for all these recent Wall Street bailouts. Yet McCain says that the area where he won't cut the budget is for the Pentagon.

Well USA, you have to make some choices now. To really make a substantial difference in your national budget you'll have to cut where McCain says he won't cut. Otherwise all these arguments about high taxes paying for welfare are moot, since most of your taxes don't go for social programs. They go to the military. This is all easily verifiable.

[hippifried]

That's just the discretionary budget. The majority of taxes go toward entitlements. The biggest entitlement, over a third of the total budget & working its way toward half, is service on the debt.

[NYBURBS]

While you're all working yourselves into a tizzy again about taxes and welfare, consider where most of your federal taxes really go:

That's right, nearly 2/3 of all you pay in federal taxes goes to the Pentagon. The US defense budget is more than all the other defense budgets of all the other countries on Earth, combined! Do you really think that the rest of planet Earth is going to attack you simultaneously?

Who says anything about McCain dude? I loathe his party platform just as much. I would pull out of all of these countries, and let them settle their own crap. Korea? Not our problem. Western Europe? They can defend themselves. Georgia, Ukraine, etc? I wouldn't appreciate Russian troops/missiles in Mexico so it's not a hot idea to stick ours on their border. That on 9/11 we did not have adequate air defense coverage over our own sovereign air space is inexcusable. I can guarantee you if that was over Korea or Iraq we would have had no shortage of armed jets with which to intercept planes.

The argument being made by many people in America today is not that McCain is the solution, it's that the political party system (especially 2 party system) is a disaster and both spout dangerous and misguided policy platforms.

[Buzz]

That's just the discretionary budget. The majority of taxes go toward entitlements. The biggest entitlement, over a third of the total budget & working its way toward half, is service on the debt.

Good point...a large part of the federal budget is interest payments on borrowing to pay for PAST wars.

[NYBURBS]

Yea and the democratic party has such a great track record on overseas involvement right? Kennedy and Vietnam? LBJ and Vietnam? Clinton and the Balkans? Clinton and Somalia? Both parties are spending our wealth and blood overseas, they just slap different spins on it. I 100% agree that we are dooming our posterity with debt, I just ask people to wake up and see both parties are engaged in this.

[trish]

NYBURBS wrote:

It's not sophomoric at all. There is a partial nationalization of banks taking place as we speak.

Of course ist’s sophomoric. It’s sophomoric to suggest that a partial nationalization of the banks (implemented in the hope to rescue a collapsing economy) is a deliberate attempt to eliminate private property nor even the elimination of the ruling classes (your definition of socialism). Surely you are aware of the distance between your own definition and your own description of current events.

Democrats advocate heavily for things such as government sponsored (paid for?) universal health care and increased entitlement spending, along with market policies that require heavy regulation, among other things (The Community Reinvestment Act of 1977?).

By your own definition that is not a socialist agenda. These positions do not entail the elimination of private property. The concepts of public property and public programs do not entail the elimination private property; nor even the ruling classes (though personally, I’m all for eliminating the ruling classes…not to be confused with the wealthy classes).

Not only does the democratic party not advocate the elimination of private property, it explicitly and openly supports and depends on the idea of private property. Democrats want everyone to have a job and make money. Money moves through small business and drives the economy more efficiently when middle and lower money earners have enough money to spend. Democrats want to make sure that ordinary people can afford to have private property. Your implicit claim that the democratic party is secretly against the whole notion of private property, that if we give an inch toward the ideals of the democratic party, socialism will be soon to follow, all that is just fear mongering. Perhaps inadvertent on your part, but empty and vacuous fear mongering. Hardly the wise insight that El Nino takes it to be.

[NYBURBS]

They are steps in that direction, an ideology that the government can use your capital and property better than you can. GSEs were essentially experimentation in this area, and that has helped lead us to disaster. Given the type of economy we now have (and the fact that our actual production was shipped overseas) that leaves the banks and their credit as essentially being the means of production in this economy. That fits in just perfectly with what I wrote.

What we had before was neither socialism nor capitalism but rather some type of mixed bag. Where we are currently moving toward is socialism, not in big huge steps but rather in smaller more deliberate ones. Of course we could have another neo-con revolution and continue down the path toward fascism. Either way the choices suck at the moment.

[trish]

A drive north might take you from Texas to Illinois, but it doesn't follow that it will take you to the North Pole nor does it follow the North Pole is the intended destination. To characterize a north bound trip as a dangerous, deliberate approach toward the freezing pole is just silly. [However, this aspect of your argument is not only silly but off the point: recognizing that there can be public property is taking absolutely no steps northward toward the elimination of private property].