So many gay references

[yodajazz]

So I think the men that say that, are trying to get across they do not like men, but are attracted to a woman like you.

It is understood from the get-go that these men are interested in women, and I understand their special turn-on that a woman they find attractive has a penis. If he were interested in another man he would not be drawn to me. They need not make that clear; all TS know this.

Man-to-man relations are entirely different from man-TS relations. So for the guy to bring up the distinction, it shows me he

a) questions his "straightness" (which is a joke, almost all of us are bi)and

b) views me as more of a man than a woman.

Now, this is how TS interpret it. So before you guys go on the rampage, just remember that- it's how we see it because we are in constant and unending fear that we are not going to be treated or viewed as a woman. We think to ourselves, "why is he bringing up his lack of attraction to men? He wouldn't say that to a natural born woman."

Sometimes you have to look at a person's intentions more than their words. Do they want to insult you? No, they are calling you because they feel some kind of attraction. Are they nervous and not sure what to say? Yes. Do they know what (ts,gg) women are thinking? No. So the moral is: Try not to look for insults. If someone really wants to insult you, they will make it clear by thier actions.

You said:
"If he were interested in another man he would not be drawn to me. They need not make that clear; all TS know "
If the girls all know this, how come they are constantly saying the men only want them for one thing, the male part. Some woman even wrote recently, that a man who was with a pre op and did not touch the cock, still wanted the woman only for her cock, but was just afraid to acknowledge it. Another time, a man who wanted to be with his girlfriend and a pre op at the same time, was called as gay, and no other women tried to say otherwise in the posts that followed.

But I agree with you. A man would not be drawn to you if he was into men. I just don't think, all girls know this, from deep inside themselves.

[melissacarter]

BEAUTIFUL STRANGER.

It is sad, how a few negative people can outshine all the positive people out there unconditionally accepting and admiring the TS community.

You make alot of judgements about sexuality. I'm not going to say you are right or wrong. What I am going to say is I agree with you that most people are bisexual. Individually dealing with it is difficult and how everyone goes about it is of course unique.

From my own perspective, I've always been attracted to the feminine form that has a male genitalia. Why? I don't know and can't explain. I find it sexually exciting. More so than anything else. Am I attracted to men? No. Not in the conventional sense. The male form does not excite me. Does it make me angry? No. is it confusing? Sometimes yes. There are many posts about this subject on HA.

I have great respect for all the transgendered people, dealing with so much ignorence in America about the issue of gender.
I think you are beautiful. Especially when you were in the chat room last night. There are many more folks like myself who embrace you than there are those who reject you.
I hope this helps in some way or another.

Yes, sometimes I get all judgy and before I know it this person is being cast to Hell and that person goes to Purgatory, and then I stop and think, wait, I'm just a fucking tranny in Jersey...now let's get back to handwashing these bras.

[melissacarter]

If he wants to suck my dick, hey that's cool, he can be a client but he's not gonna be my man.

This is the part I have trouble with. I understand you want to be recognized as a woman, but shouldn't everyone be able to enjoy receiving oral sex from someone who finds them attractive?

Please don't make the mistake of taking me seriously. I fall for my righteous blather all the time.

I don’t know…in truth, I wake up in the morning sometimes after a good long rest, then re-read my ranting from last night and think, “did I really say that shit?”

What I stand for one moment I oppose the next. My beliefs are granite today and oatmeal tomorrow. You shouldn’t take anything I say seriously, I change opinions, I am fickle, I am…a woman.

[Anon_E_Miss]

This is the part I have trouble with. I understand you want to be recognized as a woman, but shouldn't everyone be able to enjoy receiving oral sex from someone who finds them attractive?

Look up GID. :P

[Justawannabe]

Thanks to the guys who posted here... you were all much easier to understand than I was.

On the look up GID... one of the issues with GID right now is that a lot of people misplace their discomfort as hate of the genitals. You don't see the same level of hate directed at the scrotum or wide shoulders or thin lips...

It's visible, it's iconic and it draws attention to itself... so gets a lot of hate, but the issue is with being able to interact as a woman. With both yourself and the world.

Part of the problem with the therapy available right now is a reliance on surgery to fix the issue rather than working on self perception alongside and equal to surgical intervention.

I've seen to many girls get hooked into constantly hacking at their own bodies, trying to erase anything that might be perceived to be male. The penis is the obvious target (and an appropriate one, don't get me wrong) but it goes beyond that. Often ignored is the reality of many women having features that are stereotypically male.

This is were the intersex and transsexual discussions have common ground. The medical community has placed a huge emphasis on being 'normal' through surgical intervention... despite the risks and lack of real confidence that often results, despite the delay of starting to really live your life as you wait to be made normal.

I'm just saying that you need to really spend time on understanding your body and taking advantage of the good feelings it can bring. I blindfolded one girl I knew and licked instead of sucked and she had great time, with no guilt, in part because she wasn't stuck with the image, just the sensations.

Most folks do the same thing with the anus, assume through social conditioning that it shouldn't provide any pleasure, but that's changed dramatically over the past few decades. Go look at how folks used to perceive anal sex being 30 years ago... it was all pain for the recipient and sadistic for the penetrator. Most men still see it as essentially gay, though even that is changing, and have emotional reactions far out of line with the reality of what is suggested by an adventurous partner.

Perception is reality most of the time...

Sean

[scroller]

Fact is, as soon as I see the gay reference I know he's got a gay side. Denying it means it's there.

Fact is, we TS are NOT men. Nor do we represent some faction or subset of the gay community.

Fact is, as soon as I see the man reference I know a TS has got a man side. Denying it means it's there.

Or maybe that's an unfair, rather hateful way to think?

[Anon_E_Miss]

Interesting, and clearly well thought out post Justawannabe. I wanted to reply on a couple of points, though to stop getting repetitive I'll just get out out the way this is purely a personal response with no other evidence.

On the look up GID... one of the issues with GID right now is that a lot of people misplace their discomfort as hate of the genitals. You don't see the same level of hate directed at the scrotum or wide shoulders or thin lips...

There's a massive difference between genitals and the other aspects however. I reacted the same way any woman forced to have an unwanted penis put between their legs would have - that is to say to want it removed and to undertake appropriate efforts to that end. It's quite different to having wider shoulders or thinner hips, you can't ignore it or fail to notice it, it's always there, it's the original cause of the other damage, and I can't think of any way to word it other then what I would describe as a dulled sense of rape.

It's visible, it's iconic and it draws attention to itself... so gets a lot of hate, but the issue is with being able to interact as a woman. With both yourself and the world.

I actually wrote a post on a similar issue today on a personal diary. On a logical note, you're perfectly right - I should definitely get my face sorted first and breasts if I want them bigger. But it's impossible to really think like that in the situation.

I've seen to many girls get hooked into constantly hacking at their own bodies, trying to erase anything that might be perceived to be male. The penis is the obvious target (and an appropriate one, don't get me wrong) but it goes beyond that. Often ignored is the reality of many women having features that are stereotypically male.

This is were the intersex and transsexual discussions have common ground. The medical community has placed a huge emphasis on being 'normal' through surgical intervention... despite the risks and lack of real confidence that often results, despite the delay of starting to really live your life as you wait to be made normal.

At the end of the day, it all comes down what the surgeons will actually do (I've been told no chance in hell at some of my requests) and how much cash there is to do it. I know the whole "surgery is the answer" thing goes against the points in your post but what else is there? Even if it was possible I wouldn't want to be male, so I may as well try and make what I have as good as possible. Surgery isn't perfect, but neither is having GID in the first place.

I'm just saying that you need to really spend time on understanding your body and taking advantage of the good feelings it can bring. I blindfolded one girl I knew and licked instead of sucked and she had great time, with no guilt, in part because she wasn't stuck with the image, just the sensations.

Most folks do the same thing with the anus, assume through social conditioning that it shouldn't provide any pleasure, but that's changed dramatically over the past few decades. Go look at how folks used to perceive anal sex being 30 years ago...

You're right on this, of course. After reading through this site and some associated reading material over the last couple of days it's opened my mind a bit, and I can understand you comment where previously I'd have just dismissed you as wrong. I even hope the thinking will help with my current relationship (so on a side note you'll be glad to know I'll be leaving you all alone soon :P), but with regard to the original point this came from, I still don't think things could ever be comfortable enough to enjoy something like receiving oral sex as things stand. It's too much "you're a guy" re-enforcement and too much anger associated to be pleasurable or even almost comfortable. And on that point, I reckon at least some TS girls would agree.

I also feel like I'm derailing the thread more then it already is, so sorry about that.

[melissacarter]

Fact is, as soon as I see the gay reference I know he's got a gay side. Denying it means it's there.

Fact is, we TS are NOT men. Nor do we represent some faction or subset of the gay community.

Fact is, as soon as I see the man reference I know a TS has got a man side. Denying it means it's there.

Or maybe that's an unfair, rather hateful way to think?

LOL, hateful??? These guys don't get to the level of hate, they just don't matter that much.

And it's totally fair. I'm not laying my unsolicited sexual history on anyone. You guys like picking fights with TS, maybe it's a disguised way of asking to shove our dicks down your throat.

[scroller]

You guys like picking fights with TS, maybe it's a disguised way of asking to shove our dicks down your throat.

You TS like picking fights with guys, maybe it's a disguised way of asking to shove your dicks down our throat.

[Justawannabe]

thanks for the response Anon-E-Miss

Surgery is definitely part of the answer... just need to remember it's only part.

Very minor quibble - penis isn't the source of the issue, that's the testis. Penis is just a clit and urethra drafted into the wrong army.

I held the hand of a couple of girls through a lot of surgery, and it helps in some ways, but doesn't seem to get through to the real feelings. It just shifts emphasis to another part of the face or body. The hunt for that last piece of evidence that they were once boys.

I know acceptance is unlikely, but a lot of the T-girls I've met seem to be better off if they can see themselves not as women who lived horrible lives but as women who had a boyhood and are now having a womanhood. That is instead of trying to erase the boyhood as if it never happened. As I said I don't expect that to work, just an ideal state.

A bit like wishing depressives could just get up and start exercising and going about their lives. It actually helps a lot, but oh so hard to do.

And I also agree... hard to enjoy something that has become a target of such hate... just saying there needs to be some bypass, as its the same flesh you'll have after the surgery, and at least for my ex, you can still tell what came from where by feel.

And always sad to see anyone who makes a thoughtful post disappear. This is basically a porn site that I tend to drag into being something it's not intended to be, and always happier to when I have others around doing the same thing.

Funny thing is I came here just to do some research when an ex decided to get into the business... but I've hung around.

Sean