Losing penis size due to HRT or Ochiectomy

[ballbreaker]

lets see some before and after pictures

[SarahG]

hhmm... having orchi should be somewhat different that being on androgen blockers, largely because T production rises and falls depending on circumstances. Great studies I read about ten years ago showed that T levels in men could drop to zero from losing a game of tennis or shoot to three or four times normal from winning... and the shift could stay that way for extended periods.

With out the the spikes there might no signals to maintain the size. Sadly I can't back that up right now, but it would be interesting to look into.

Sean

Yea but that's a different situation, those studies are all talking about normal biological males- whereas with HRT the tblockers prevent any T that is in the system for working (provided the dosage is high enough).

That's why feminization from hrt is possible, the T is kept from working- allowing for the estrogen added to the system to do so.

Otherwise, if the T in the system kept spiking & working what would happen is people would continue to masculate no matter what unless they get an orchi, but this just isn't the way it works.

Most the girls in other countries who start early (as in pre-puberty) start using HRT, they usually don't get orchis for years later- yet they don't masculate at all because the system (for producing T) shuts down -from hrt alone-

This is also why, girls who take enough hrt to have their levels in the right places, will see their testes shrink with time.

But obviously if your levels aren't in the right ranges then hrt isn't going to be working fully, allowing for masculation to continue. Why would your levels not be right? Has to be either the dosage isnt high enough, or the body has somehow built up a tolerance to whatever meds you're taking.

There is evidence that the former happens with trans patients, how many girls are out there who saw a small breast growth spirt after switching what type of estrogen they're taking?

I kinda also have to think spiro isn't as effective as some of the other antiandrogens out there, Cyprotone Acetate for instance but afaik every anti-androgen on the market is merely a receptor blocker, so you're relying on your body noticing the E and stopping T production, HOWEVER- that as a tactic works, hence why antiandrogens are used to shut off T levels in certain male cancers (i.e. testes, prostate etc).

That's why I asked about pre-orchi hormone levels, that is the only thing I can imagine an orchi changing- the penis is merely a hydrolic system, it isn't much of a muscle (there are muscles involved but its a hydrolic system which is why viagra works). As long as its being used I have trouble seeing why it would shrink from a change in hormone levels. Usually the girls who end up "losing penis tissue from hrt" are losing it strictly because its not being used.

Some more to think about: I have heard some people speculate that postops are, by and large today- staying on higher hrt dosages after the surgery than used to be the case (10+ years ago most postops would after the surgery stop taking tblockers at all, and just take normal post menopausal GG dosages of estrogen). This has had an effect on appearances, because at the low older postop hrt regimens what was happening was the T levels were spiking the way you describe from time to time (testes aren't the only places T and DHT is produced BTW!) and as a result were leading to some masculation effects, whereas girls that continue to take some Tblockers (just not as much as a preop) along side sufficent E to keep their levels in the normal female range, don't have that "postop masculation effect"

[KiraHarden]

hhmm... having orchi should be somewhat different that being on androgen blockers, largely because T production rises and falls depending on circumstances. Great studies I read about ten years ago showed that T levels in men could drop to zero from losing a game of tennis or shoot to three or four times normal from winning... and the shift could stay that way for extended periods.

With out the the spikes there might no signals to maintain the size. Sadly I can't back that up right now, but it would be interesting to look into.

Sean

Yea but that's a different situation, those studies are all talking about normal biological males- whereas with HRT the tblockers prevent any T that is in the system for working (provided the dosage is high enough).

That's why feminization from hrt is possible, the T is kept from working- allowing for the estrogen added to the system to do so.

Otherwise, if the T in the system kept spiking & working what would happen is people would continue to masculate no matter what unless they get an orchi, but this just isn't the way it works.

Most the girls in other countries who start early (as in pre-puberty) start using HRT, they usually don't get orchis for years later- yet they don't masculate at all because the system (for producing T) shuts down -from hrt alone-

This is also why, girls who take enough hrt to have their levels in the right places, will see their testes shrink with time.

But obviously if your levels aren't in the right ranges then hrt isn't going to be working fully, allowing for masculation to continue. Why would your levels not be right? Has to be either the dosage isnt high enough, or the body has somehow built up a tolerance to whatever meds you're taking.

There is evidence that the former happens with trans patients, how many girls are out there who saw a small breast growth spirt after switching what type of estrogen they're taking?

I kinda also have to think spiro isn't as effective as some of the other antiandrogens out there, Cyprotone Acetate for instance but afaik every anti-androgen on the market is merely a receptor blocker, so you're relying on your body noticing the E and stopping T production, HOWEVER- that as a tactic works, hence why antiandrogens are used to shut off T levels in certain male cancers (i.e. testes, prostate etc).

That's why I asked about pre-orchi hormone levels, that is the only thing I can imagine an orchi changing- the penis is merely a hydrolic system, it isn't much of a muscle (there are muscles involved but its a hydrolic system which is why viagra works). As long as its being used I have trouble seeing why it would shrink from a change in hormone levels. Usually the girls who end up "losing penis tissue from hrt" are losing it strictly because its not being used.

Some more to think about: I have heard some people speculate that postops are, by and large today- staying on higher hrt dosages after the surgery than used to be the case (10+ years ago most postops would after the surgery stop taking tblockers at all, and just take normal post menopausal GG dosages of estrogen). This has had an effect on appearances, because at the low older postop hrt regimens what was happening was the T levels were spiking the way you describe from time to time (testes aren't the only places T and DHT is produced BTW!) and as a result were leading to some masculation effects, whereas girls that continue to take some Tblockers (just not as much as a preop) along side sufficent E to keep their levels in the normal female range, don't have that "postop masculation effect"

I wasn't really seeking advice on why I'm shrinking. I'm aware of all the reasons. I don't use my thing at all

The question is more to the girls is if they have noticed the loss of size as well

From the surgery perspective I don't want to lose size, other wise it could shrink to a nub and I wouldn't care.

[Alyssa87]

its been almost 2 years taking mones.
libido & sperm is less.

size is the same tho.

[KiraHarden]

hhmm... having orchi should be somewhat different that being on androgen blockers, largely because T production rises and falls depending on circumstances. Great studies I read about ten years ago showed that T levels in men could drop to zero from losing a game of tennis or shoot to three or four times normal from winning... and the shift could stay that way for extended periods.

With out the the spikes there might no signals to maintain the size. Sadly I can't back that up right now, but it would be interesting to look into.

Sean

Yea but that's a different situation, those studies are all talking about normal biological males- whereas with HRT the tblockers prevent any T that is in the system for working (provided the dosage is high enough).

That's why feminization from hrt is possible, the T is kept from working- allowing for the estrogen added to the system to do so.

Otherwise, if the T in the system kept spiking & working what would happen is people would continue to masculate no matter what unless they get an orchi, but this just isn't the way it works.

Most the girls in other countries who start early (as in pre-puberty) start using HRT, they usually don't get orchis for years later- yet they don't masculate at all because the system (for producing T) shuts down -from hrt alone-

This is also why, girls who take enough hrt to have their levels in the right places, will see their testes shrink with time.

But obviously if your levels aren't in the right ranges then hrt isn't going to be working fully, allowing for masculation to continue. Why would your levels not be right? Has to be either the dosage isnt high enough, or the body has somehow built up a tolerance to whatever meds you're taking.

There is evidence that the former happens with trans patients, how many girls are out there who saw a small breast growth spirt after switching what type of estrogen they're taking?

I kinda also have to think spiro isn't as effective as some of the other antiandrogens out there, Cyprotone Acetate for instance but afaik every anti-androgen on the market is merely a receptor blocker, so you're relying on your body noticing the E and stopping T production, HOWEVER- that as a tactic works, hence why antiandrogens are used to shut off T levels in certain male cancers (i.e. testes, prostate etc).

That's why I asked about pre-orchi hormone levels, that is the only thing I can imagine an orchi changing- the penis is merely a hydrolic system, it isn't much of a muscle (there are muscles involved but its a hydrolic system which is why viagra works). As long as its being used I have trouble seeing why it would shrink from a change in hormone levels. Usually the girls who end up "losing penis tissue from hrt" are losing it strictly because its not being used.

Some more to think about: I have heard some people speculate that postops are, by and large today- staying on higher hrt dosages after the surgery than used to be the case (10+ years ago most postops would after the surgery stop taking tblockers at all, and just take normal post menopausal GG dosages of estrogen). This has had an effect on appearances, because at the low older postop hrt regimens what was happening was the T levels were spiking the way you describe from time to time (testes aren't the only places T and DHT is produced BTW!) and as a result were leading to some masculation effects, whereas girls that continue to take some Tblockers (just not as much as a preop) along side sufficent E to keep their levels in the normal female range, don't have that "postop masculation effect"

I wasn't really seeking advice on why I'm shrinking. I'm aware of all the reasons. I don't use my thing at all

The question is more to the girls is if they have noticed the loss of size as well

From the surgery perspective I don't want to lose size, other wise it could shrink to a nub and I wouldn't care.

[Justawannabe]

Sorry to threadjack then Kira... I just had a couple of conversations with ladies I know about the subject a few years ago and one topic that had come up was the idea that T was not a constant level while their T-blockers were and that the spiking might have had some effects.

Sean

[KiraHarden]

Sorry to threadjack then Kira... I just had a couple of conversations with ladies I know about the subject a few years ago and one topic that had come up was the idea that T was not a constant level while their T-blockers were and that the spiking might have had some effects.

Sean

Don't worry about it. I just thought the thread was going in the direction I had intended

[tooinqusitive02]

THE MORE YOU LOOSE THE BETTER i think you would bee even hotter with out it i have no need for that any way all i need is your taught lil hole

[peggygee]

Sarah has made a lot of interesting points, which I will try to get back to.

But to answer Kira'a question;

How much loss can we expect? Is there a avg loss or just varies on dosage?

How small should I/we expect to shrink?

The short answer is, "your mileage may vary".

I don't think there's a hard and fast rule, pardon the pun, as to how much
you will lose.

When I had my orchi, I lost some length. Which was cool with me because
I didn't like my penis and didn't use it.

Fortunately for me I still had enough to work with when I had GRS, and I
have pretty adequate depth.

If you don't have much penile skin, then they can use some of your
scrotal tissue to graft,and give you more depth. As the scrotal tissue has
sensitivity, this works fairly well.

Other times, tissue is taken from the thigh or the stomach.

If the penis is is really small, then the sigmoid colon technique may be
used.

I'd suggest what my surgeon told me when he performed the orchi, and
knew that I planned GRS. He said that I should masturbate and stretch
my penis to prevent the penile tissue from atrophying.

Other than that, I would never have touched my penis, other than to wash
it.

[KiraHarden]

Sarah has made a lot of interesting points, which I will try to get back to.

But to answer Kira'a question;

How much loss can we expect? Is there a avg loss or just varies on dosage?

How small should I/we expect to shrink?

The short answer is, "your mileage may vary".

I don't think there's a hard and fast rule, pardon the pun, as to how much
you will lose.

When I had my orchi, I lost some length. Which was cool with me because
I didn't like my penis and didn't use it.

Fortunately for me I still had enough to work with when I had GRS, and I
have pretty adequate depth.

If you don't have much penile skin, then they can use some of your
scrotal tissue to graft,and give you more depth. As the scrotal tissue has
sensitivity, this works fairly well.

Other times, tissue is taken from the thigh or the stomach.

If the penis is is really small, then the sigmoid colon technique may be
used.

I'd suggest what my surgeon told me when he performed the orchi, and
knew that I planned GRS. He said that I should masturbate and stretch
my penis to prevent the penile tissue from atrophying.

Other than that, I would never have touched my penis, other than to wash
it.

thank you Peggy and Sarah