Double Standard for Gay Men/Transsexuals

[blckhaze]

I think the real issue is transexual acceptance within the gay world

the New York gay community is a well organized fighting machine with huge political muscle on the state and city level, yet they do nothing to advance transgender issues.

for most gays, transpeople are not part of the gay struggle.

agreed.

[hondarobot]

Why would TS girls have any interest in the gay male community?

[tgirlzoe]

I don't know how I feel about homosexuality, it bothers me on some level. Men with men and women with women seems fruitless and strange. I feel that gay marriage comes from a fundamental redefining of marriage which has largely come to pass already, which is love marriage. If you define marriage as simply "two people who are 'in love' with each other and want to be bound together for the rest of their lives, or at least until one wants a divorce" then who is to say that doesn't include same-sex couples? But this is a very modern and culturally-specific definition of marriage.

The whole gay movement stands for something I don't know if I can support. I believe in getting the government as much out of our hair as possible -- so sodomy laws, state involvement in marriage*, and other restrictions on homosexuals I do oppose. On the other hand, this also means no ban on discrimination against homosexuals or anyone else.

I don't consider myself part of the LGBt "community" as much as there is one. I am really only loosely connected to the trans "community". Mostly, I just live my life within straight society and that's how I see myself.

For many people, there is a blurred line between transsexuality and homosexuality. For example, How is my sexuality with my boyfriend any different just because I have breasts? We are both biologically "male", we both even have penises, for many people, that's just gay but for us, it's just unique.

Lesbianism isn't as threatening for men because women are always seen as non-threatening. But this isn't what most guys have in mind when they think of lesbians (or at least not the ones they want to be thinking about). So what is threatening is women invading masculinity, the idea that women can be better men than men.

I believe that this is something that is going to happen in a world where there are fewer and fewer men. Men are absentee fathers, ex-husbands, short-term boyfriends, etc. How many over-40 women decide to become lesbians after they get divorced? They figure that men can't do their duty so they have other women to fulfill that role. Younger and younger women come out as lesbian because they have no decent role models of men in their lives.

Men, on the other hand, are very sexual beings and they may be attracted to other men for whatever reason, sometimes just because it feels good ("trade"). Just open up Craigslist and look at the ads for "men seeking men" versus the ads for "women seeking women". Women are looking for companionship, relationships (sometimes experimentation) and the men are straight-forwardly looking for an anonymous one-time fuck.

So I see homosexuality as likely a factor in all societies, but almost never practiced to exclusivity. For example, Greek pederasty was very common but everyone was still expected to get married and have children and stop having love affairs with young men. The growing incidence of exclusive same-sex partnerships and the concept of "sexual orientation" is probably due to the breakdown in traditional society.

So how do transsexuals, specifically myself, fit into all this? To be honest, I don't know. I can say that I see myself as a woman in this but it is more complicated than that because of my biology and social history. I can say that it makes a lot more sense for me to live as a straight woman than to live as a gay man. I think if most people really considered the issue, they would see it too.

* England only forbade common-law marriages in 1753, the idea that the government should be involved in marriage is very recent.

[blackrob]

Why would TS girls have any interest in the gay male community?

I hear that ts and gay men dont get along that well?

[Merkurie]

One thing I discovered about the gay community is that its just a bunch of men. Men who like many straight men, dont care much at all for women.

But I do think there is a link between the trans people and the gay community and that is that many trans people get caught up in the gay community due to ignorance and isolation and are ridiculed into "acting like a man."

I think the lesbian community may be better about gender varience and transmen, but I can say that among the gay men I have known, disdain for transwomen and femme bois is very common.

As the trans community grows and self identifies that will no doubt change, but most in the outside world just sees all gender or sexually variant people as "queers" or worse "freaks".

[russtafa]

lesbians ive met emulate the wost aspects of masculinity

[biguy4tvtscd]

I don't know how I feel about homosexuality, it bothers me on some level. Men with men and women with women seems fruitless and strange.

I can sort of understand people being kind of weirded out by homosexuality, but I think we've got to realize that you might as well be weirded out by curly hair, or green eyes. It's found in nearly every species of animal on the planet. In other words, it's a natural condition that's not going anywhere, so you'd better learn to accept it.

I feel that gay marriage comes from a fundamental redefining of marriage which has largely come to pass already, which is love marriage. If you define marriage as simply "two people who are 'in love' with each other and want to be bound together for the rest of their lives, or at least until one wants a divorce" then who is to say that doesn't include same-sex couples? But this is a very modern and culturally-specific definition of marriage.

I believe there is absolutely a socially stabilizing effect of having small, tight knit, family groups as "the norm". The problem we're facing today is legal recognition of groups that don't fit the 1 man/1 woman/2.5 kids paradigm we generally expect.
The key is that we realize that it's not the makeup of the group that's important, but having the group itself.
And I'd be willing to bet that if you took a hard look throughout history, you'd find plenty of "non-traditional" family groups sprinkled amongst the rest. While the religious "definition" of marriage has been the dominant one throughout much of history, that's more a reflection of "history is written by the victors" than anything else. Religion did not invent marriage, it was around long before Judiasm, let alone Christianity.

As for "state sponsored" marriage, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. No need to "get the government out of marriage" (and fwiw, you 'll have to pry my marital tax benefits from my cold dead hands) The protections afforded by it far outweigh any philosophical arguments against.
You WANT legal rights when a husband or wife is sick. You WANT legal rights when raising children. These rights are the foundation of state sponsored marriage. The church can't offer any of that, regardless of the genders of those involved.

[FreddieGomez]

my new girl is bisexual..she jus told me...so in a way it's a good thing...cause we agreed i'd be the only dude she fucks but she can fuck other chicks as long as i can join or watch...bi chicks are the best yo!!!!!!!!

[phobun]

I think the real issue is transexual acceptance within the gay world

the New York gay community is a well organized fighting machine with huge political muscle on the state and city level, yet they do nothing to advance transgender issues.

for most gays, transpeople are not part of the gay struggle.

I don't think transpeople are helped by being grouped in with gays. Transwomen need to be seen as women and distinct from gay men... if transsexuals are seen as being under the gay umbrella, then people are still viewing them as male.

[phobun]

the gay communitty has never gave a rats ass about transgendered people thats a fact in both the U.S. and Canada. here in canada most tgirls want nothing to do with the glbt and there communitty we would rather just hang with the straight people cause thats where we belong and have the most in common.

Well said.