Look out Democrats

[PapaGrande]

I remember hearing on the news the President of Iran had written Bush a 30 page letter. At the time they reported that the Bush Adminstration didn't think much of the letter. And I believe their position at the time meet our demands and then we'll talk. I don't know what he said, of course, but I think a smart course would have been to use his words as a point to negotiate. Use his words to find points of agreement, and also seek concessions.

Possibly you saw that on Frontline's "Showdown With Iran". Basically when we rolled over Iraq with our Mission Accomplished banners the Iranians wanted to negotiate, but I guess the Bush Administration though we would have the whole Middle East under our control in a few years so told the Iranians to fuck off.

[Stoked]

your "point" about there being gun crime in Chicago despite his sensible talk, is simply hot air.

Why? The criminals and gangs STILL have and use guns despite the gun ban. There has been plenty of talking and pontificating about guns in Chicago, now they are banned... why didnt talking as yodajazz proclaims, work the criminals and gangs regarding guns, and for that matter, crime in general?

yodajazz says
" But the issue that caught my attention was when I heard him(Obama) say he would talk with our ‘enemies’. That sound sensible "

Evil is as evil does...

Talking is done before the guns are drawn. And speaking of gang violence, there is actually less today, because major gangs held a summit and called a truce. This was some years ago. There is still violence from smaller unaffiliated gangs, but it is less overall. It is my understanding violent crimes are down. Jail is only a partial answer, because gangs can just continue the war in jail and export the ideas to their brothers on the streets. Major gangs have even been run from jail. I think that you think I mean not to be people in jail, when I say things like this. This is not the case. I am saying jail is not the only way to lower the crime rate.

Obama not talking about not using military action at all, he’s just saying that talking would be used more prominently. Funny now the Bush administration blasted Obama for saying that he would negotiate with Iran, then turned around and did it themselves. All wars end by talking, even if it is just to surrender. But sometimes they just agree to end the hostilities, like between Iran and Iraq. All the weapons of death including poison gas were used, but it ended with negotiation (talking).

Nobody is saying, that negotiation is going end all problems or violence, but it is an important tool that has been under used. It can help change the odds as some potential enemies are neutralized and also encourage allies to join you.

I remember hearing on the news the President of Iran had written Bush a 30 page letter. At the time they reported that the Bush Adminstration didn't think much of the letter. And I believe their position at the time meet our demands and then we'll talk. I don't know what he said, of course, but I think a smart course would have been to use his words as a point to negotiate. Use his words to find points of agreement, and also seek concessions.

Gang violence lower because of handgun laws and talking, meetings and truces? OMG...truces? So wrong again Yodajazz. Its because of this program created by George W Bush coming in at the end of the gun crime ridden Clinton administration. Its called PSN. Project Safe Neighborhoods.


"Although U.S. violent crime rates have been declining steadily
and are now at a 30-year low,gun violence,particularly
homicide,continues to be a significant problem. Death by firearms
accounted for 67 percent of all homicides in 2002.1
To combat gun crime,in 2001 President George W. Bush created an
aggressive,comprehensive gun crime reduction strategy called Project
Safe Neighborhoods (PSN). By linking federal,state,and local law
enforcement,prosecutors,and community leaders,PSN provides a
multifaceted approach to deterring and punishing gun crime. It
represents a nationwide commitment to reduce gun crime by
providing locally based programs with the tools and resources they
need to succeed.


"In 2002 gun crime was a serious problem in Chicago. There were 648 homicides that year -- most of them resulting from guns. To address the problem, a multiagency task force turned to Project Safe Neighborhoods, a Department of Justice initiative targeting felons with firearms. The idea behind Project Safe Nieghborhoods was simple: send felons to serve long sentences in federal prisons far from home if they are caught with guns or ammunition. Our research evaluates this strategy along with two other PSN initiatives: (1) supply-side firearm policing activities, and (2) social marketing of deterrence and social norms messages through justice-style offender notification meetings."

and this

"Project Safe Neighborhoods Results in 37 Percent Drop in Homicide Rates
Chicago Program Uses Non-traditional Methods to Decrease Gun-related Homicide

Chicago – June 20, 2007 - Project Safe Neighborhoods, a Chicago program designed to bring law enforcement together with researchers and community agencies to reduce gun violence, is associated with a 37 percent drop in monthly homicide rates. According to a study in the Journal of Empirical Legal Studies, the largest effect comes from a unique collaborative program involving criminal justice and community actors focused on the re-entry of ex-offenders into the community.

The Project Safe Neighborhoods program includes four elements of intervention:

-An increase in federal prosecutions for convicted felons carrying or using guns
-An increase in sentence length associated with federal prosecution
-Supply-side firearm policing strategies
-A unique series of offender notification meetings that take place within troubled communities and emphasize views of legitimacy about the law.

“This study demonstrates the potential for new collaborative efforts to reduce gun violence in Chicago,” says study author Andrew Papachristos. “The strategies implemented in Chicago might be adapted or applied to other cities with similar gun problems.” Specifically, Papachristos notes that the offender notification meetings have led to the most significant decreases in homicide compared to traditional policing strategies.

This research highlights new possibilities for gun violence programs nation-wide. “The work provides a focal point for policy makers looking for interventions that might reduce lethal gun violence in urban areas,” says Papachristos. “Citizens, policy makers, criminal justice officials and community organizations should think seriously about such collaborative efforts when devising future crime prevention/intervention strategies.”

.

[trish]

tsafficianado quips:

...As far as your comment that advocating secession is not very 'American'....was the colonial effort to secede from Great Britain also not 'American'?

Now let's go back and see what my comment really was:

trish:

It's irrelevant to the rather trivial observation that constitutional or not, it's not very American to harbor a desire to secede from America.

So no, the colonial effort to secede from Great Britain wasn't unAmerican. It was rather "unBritainian" don't you think? Of course you don't.

[tsafficianado]

It was just a question Trish, one that occurred to me a few weeks ago when I was watching the Ken Burns series 'Civil War' on PBS and that came to mind as I was following the thread. I meant no offense.

[a994]

McCain and Palin are real people and genuine Americans.

Just like that Real Person and Genuine American whom we have been stuck with for the past eight years.

[evilernie]

I don't think secession is such a bad idea. Surely, our insurance rates and taxes will go down, since we don't have to fund catastrophes in the south and mid-west.

Oil is bought through the global market. There are plenty of natural gas that we can buy from Canada. Besides, we're along the coast, so travel of people and goods shouldn't be a problem.

However, we might lose out on cheap labor from illegal immigrants that the south is enjoying. On second thought, nobody says that we can't outsource mindless work to the south to benefit from cheap labor. I'm sure NAFTA will still be there after we secede.

And to keep the gravy train going we can fund a few religious leader down there to make sure that they'll pass "kind" laws our way. I'm sure their flock wouldn't mind, because God speaks through their leader.

----

ha ha.. sorry, I'm on a roll.. I should take it back. Believe me. I don't really feel that way.

[qeuqheeg222]

i hate to say it but i think the american populace is so stupid that they will buy into this repug shit and vote for mccccain/palin..the gop is really good at packagin...american markets respond to this..throw in the ol'fashion racist fears and there you have another 4yrs of fucked up governance..

[PapaGrande]

i hate to say it but i think the american populace is so stupid that they will buy into this repug shit and vote for mccccain/palin..the gop is really good at packagin...american markets respond to this..throw in the ol'fashion racist fears and there you have another 4yrs of fucked up governance..

And the Democrats will have blown a sure thing.

[yodajazz]

your "point" about there being gun crime in Chicago despite his sensible talk, is simply hot air.

Why? The criminals and gangs STILL have and use guns despite the gun ban. There has been plenty of talking and pontificating about guns in Chicago, now they are banned... why didnt talking as yodajazz proclaims, work the criminals and gangs regarding guns, and for that matter, crime in general?

yodajazz says
" But the issue that caught my attention was when I heard him(Obama) say he would talk with our ‘enemies’. That sound sensible "

Evil is as evil does...

Talking is done before the guns are drawn. And speaking of gang violence, there is actually less today, because major gangs held a summit and called a truce. This was some years ago. There is still violence from smaller unaffiliated gangs, but it is less overall. It is my understanding violent crimes are down. Jail is only a partial answer, because gangs can just continue the war in jail and export the ideas to their brothers on the streets. Major gangs have even been run from jail. I think that you think I mean not to be people in jail, when I say things like this. This is not the case. I am saying jail is not the only way to lower the crime rate.

Obama not talking about not using military action at all, he’s just saying that talking would be used more prominently. Funny now the Bush administration blasted Obama for saying that he would negotiate with Iran, then turned around and did it themselves. All wars end by talking, even if it is just to surrender. But sometimes they just agree to end the hostilities, like between Iran and Iraq. All the weapons of death including poison gas were used, but it ended with negotiation (talking).

Nobody is saying, that negotiation is going end all problems or violence, but it is an important tool that has been under used. It can help change the odds as some potential enemies are neutralized and also encourage allies to join you.

I remember hearing on the news the President of Iran had written Bush a 30 page letter. At the time they reported that the Bush Adminstration didn't think much of the letter. And I believe their position at the time meet our demands and then we'll talk. I don't know what he said, of course, but I think a smart course would have been to use his words as a point to negotiate. Use his words to find points of agreement, and also seek concessions.

Gang violence lower because of handgun laws and talking, meetings and truces? OMG...truces? So wrong again Yodajazz. Its because of this program created by George W Bush coming in at the end of the gun crime ridden Clinton administration. Its called PSN. Project Safe Neighborhoods.


"Although U.S. violent crime rates have been declining steadily
and are now at a 30-year low,gun violence,particularly
homicide,continues to be a significant problem. Death by firearms
accounted for 67 percent of all homicides in 2002.1
To combat gun crime,in 2001 President George W. Bush created an
aggressive,comprehensive gun crime reduction strategy called Project
Safe Neighborhoods (PSN). By linking federal,state,and local law
enforcement,prosecutors,and community leaders,PSN provides a
multifaceted approach to deterring and punishing gun crime. It
represents a nationwide commitment to reduce gun crime by
providing locally based programs with the tools and resources they
need to succeed.


"In 2002 gun crime was a serious problem in Chicago. There were 648 homicides that year -- most of them resulting from guns. To address the problem, a multiagency task force turned to Project Safe Neighborhoods, a Department of Justice initiative targeting felons with firearms. The idea behind Project Safe Nieghborhoods was simple: send felons to serve long sentences in federal prisons far from home if they are caught with guns or ammunition. Our research evaluates this strategy along with two other PSN initiatives: (1) supply-side firearm policing activities, and (2) social marketing of deterrence and social norms messages through justice-style offender notification meetings."

and this

"Project Safe Neighborhoods Results in 37 Percent Drop in Homicide Rates
Chicago Program Uses Non-traditional Methods to Decrease Gun-related Homicide

Chicago – June 20, 2007 - Project Safe Neighborhoods, a Chicago program designed to bring law enforcement together with researchers and community agencies to reduce gun violence, is associated with a 37 percent drop in monthly homicide rates. According to a study in the Journal of Empirical Legal Studies, the largest effect comes from a unique collaborative program involving criminal justice and community actors focused on the re-entry of ex-offenders into the community.

The Project Safe Neighborhoods program includes four elements of intervention:

-An increase in federal prosecutions for convicted felons carrying or using guns
-An increase in sentence length associated with federal prosecution
-Supply-side firearm policing strategies
-A unique series of offender notification meetings that take place within troubled communities and emphasize views of legitimacy about the law.

“This study demonstrates the potential for new collaborative efforts to reduce gun violence in Chicago,” says study author Andrew Papachristos. “The strategies implemented in Chicago might be adapted or applied to other cities with similar gun problems.” Specifically, Papachristos notes that the offender notification meetings have led to the most significant decreases in homicide compared to traditional policing strategies.

This research highlights new possibilities for gun violence programs nation-wide. “The work provides a focal point for policy makers looking for interventions that might reduce lethal gun violence in urban areas,” says Papachristos. “Citizens, policy makers, criminal justice officials and community organizations should think seriously about such collaborative efforts when devising future crime prevention/intervention strategies.”

.

My brother, my brother Stoked. Are you unable to acknowledge the relationship, between a truce between national gangs, and gang violence? Instead, you can only to policies of some White man in Washington as being able to affect social change. Can’t you understand that people can make change from within their own communities?

There has been violence between men for thousands of years before the invention of the handgun. If gang members wanted to kill each other, the availability of guns is only one of many factors. I have lived in the community my whole life. I don’t recall hearing anything about the change in availability of hand guns, anyway. But I see great changes which have taken place due to the economy.

Your solution to restrict guns is a one dimensional approach to a complex issue. So you can take away guns, but leave people with little hope, resources, and substandard education to fend for themselves. As it is now, people are waiting for the houses to be abandoned then breaking in and taking the metal pipes for scrap. As I live next to the zip code with the highest foreclosure rate in the nations, pickings are plentiful. Now empty houses have big signs on them, saying; “we have no metal pipes”, to discourage break-ins. People have even stolen the guard rails off of highways, for the metal. I see that as a sign of the desperation of some people. There were no boarded up houses on this street and in my neighborhood, until the past three-four years. Now you can rarely even find a block without boarded up houses in this city.

And you are telling me about mf Bush gun policy.

You have the need to prove that you are superior, and can not acknowledge that someone else may have valid viewpoints also. Often people like that are often trying to over-compensate for other faults, like having a small dick. But that's just an example.

[DX4LIFE]

hes right Palin will eventually make hillary fade away