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Thread: No more smoking.....
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08-19-2008 #21
- Join Date
- Sep 2006
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- 1,535
Re: No more smoking.....
Originally Posted by ImpulZ
An amature does it till they get it right,
A professional does it till they can't get it wrong.
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08-19-2008 #22Originally Posted by Dinand
People can do whatever they want, so long as it doesn't impinge on others.
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08-20-2008 #23Originally Posted by ImpulZ
Have you ever seen what a smoker's lungs actually LOOK LIKE in a corpse compared to a nonsmoker's corpse?
That translates into real health problems, even if they are not always fatal ones. Your lung capacity WILL take a hit.
And as far as exaust from cars goes, you are absolutely right. The exaust is much worse that casually walking by a smoker. It's funny to see a mother round up her kids and walk wayyyyyy out of the path of a smoker (that has happened to me many times while I am smoking), but if that same kid tells mommy he is hot while they are sitting stuck in heavy traffic she will tell him to roll down the window.
There are drastically fewer mutagens, carcinogens and other hazardous compounds in typical car exhaust gases. These gases typically contain particulate matter, carbon monoxide, nitrogen dioxide, sulfur dioxide, CO2.... and to a lesser degree PAHs when the car is not operating efficiently (out of tune), and there can be trace amounts of benzene, and Formaldehyde depending on various factors (fuel used, engine condition etc).
Generally even states like CA-land, in exhaust gas regulation, are only truly concerned about the CO, nitrogen compounds, sulfur compounds and little else. Most of these chemicals in an open environment are benign, and in some cases like CO2 are critical for life on the planet (the question is what will too much do). There is a possibility that PAH's may cause cancer, but that hasn't been definitively documented outside of certain situations in the lab using test animals.
Benzene is bad, but it is also one of the common chemicals in smoking and I am unable to find how the benzene production compares between smoking & cars so it is possible one produces more than the other.
Formaldehyde is used in a lot of plastics, again I am not sure how much a typical car may produce, so it is hard to assess risk here.
Obviously any chemical that may produce adverse effect is going to be worse in a confined area, we see this with smog in LA (despite being an open space the geography limits the atmosphere's ability to "blow the pollution out of the area", NYC is similar in this regard but not as extreme), and we see this with smoking in small indoor spaces as well. Smoking bans are kinda stupid given this, if the real reason for them is safety, in any system that allows parents to smoke while driving their kids around in cars. There is also evidence that children, especially young children, are more at risk to health problems resulting from chemical exposer because they're still developing and risk acquiring developmental conditions as a result of exposers. There are chemicals that are entirely fine for elementary school kids that cannot be given to pregnant or breastfeeding mothers because they cause birth defects, as an example.
Now since the health risks from smoking is indisputable, even if it does not kill every smoker, then there is another justification for smoking bans. Even in America there is some level of government run health care (medicare, medicaid and veteran affairs) and so every smoker is taxing these programs with expenses that otherwise would have been avoidable (since there is no way to know when a smoker will either take part in these welfare programs or impact the health of someone who does via 2nd hand smoke). In addition to draining tax payer dollars, it also hurts the entire community fiscally; including nonsmokers, as every time someone engages in (medically) self destructive behavior when that individual is taking advantage of health care systems (public or private) the community at large foots the bill (the alternative would be to go "you stupid citizen, you knew smoking was bad so we're not going to pay for your cancer treatment or painkillers so you can die a slow, agonizing death...").
If I am paying into a private health care plan via my employer, I am paying for the treatment for anyone in my company who smokes- so it is effecting me in more ways than direct health ramifications. The problem with this argument is that, if we are to play the "self destructive behavior needs to be illegal across the board" card then suddenly we have to go back to a system in which things like sexual promiscuous behavior is illegal (since it could tax our health care systems through the transmission of STDs), all the way down to such absurdities as "you must wear this amount of clothing in the winter so you don't catch a cold"
And maybe its easier to withdraw from life
With all of its misery and wretched lies
If we're dead when tomorrow's gone
The Big Machine will just move on
Still we cling afraid we'll fall
Clinging like the memory which haunts us all
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08-20-2008 #24
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- Mar 2005
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- 4,911
Clearly smoking is bad for a person. I'm smoking as I type this post, and I know it's not healthy, but I enjoy doing it. I don't know why, it's a pretty stupid thing to do, but it's become a habit for me and I find it relaxing.
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08-20-2008 #25
- Join Date
- Mar 2005
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- 4,911
To further explore this subject:
I think I mostly enjoy the process of smoking. I like tapping down the cigarette, the lighting of the lighter (a wood match is even better), watching the smoke curl up in intricate patterns, and the idea that what I'm doing is clearly bad is somewhat appealing as well, for some reason..
I'll quit when I'm 40 years. That's the plan at least.
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08-20-2008 #26Originally Posted by hondarobot
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08-20-2008 #27
u dumb, smoking being stopped makes sense, stopping cars from driving, what u crazy, dumb question, im all for stopping it
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08-20-2008 #28Originally Posted by Dinand
"I used to say that politics was the second oldest profession, and I have come to know that it bears a gross similarity to the first."
-Ronald Reagan
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08-20-2008 #29Originally Posted by sucka4chix
"I used to say that politics was the second oldest profession, and I have come to know that it bears a gross similarity to the first."
-Ronald Reagan
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08-20-2008 #30
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
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- Miami
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- 242
Fuck Tobacco, Smoke Marijuana
The will of the people is the only legitimate foundation of any government, and to protect its free expression should be our first object.
Thomas Jefferson
3rd president of US (1743 - 1826)