Results 31 to 40 of 130
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08-09-2008 #31Originally Posted by Tomfurbs
There certainly are other differences between the UK & US outside of gun policy- and any attempt to explain away American violent crime problems on the basis of guns exclusively is, to say the least, grossly oversimplified.
And maybe its easier to withdraw from life
With all of its misery and wretched lies
If we're dead when tomorrow's gone
The Big Machine will just move on
Still we cling afraid we'll fall
Clinging like the memory which haunts us all
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08-09-2008 #32Originally Posted by trish
The Nazi's once in political control, enacted a firearms licensing program that allowed expanded possession of "trustworthy" persons whom could show a need. Exempt from the requirement to license a firearm were members of the Nazi Party, who were free to carry firearms unfettered by law. One of the groups that were explicitly refused the right to keep or bear arms were the Jews. I'm sure I don't need to enlighten you as to their fate.
It would be like removing all firearms in the United States (minus the government), and then having say the Republicans pass an act that allowed unfettered possession only by members of their party. It leaves everyone else powerless to defend themselves in the face of any type of oppression.
The argument in the article that Jews in Germany were not predisposed to violent resistance may be true, but that doesn't mean we should make that same mistake. For me this simply comes down to my unwillingness to entrust my freedom to the "benevolence" of others that wish to rule.
In a civilized society we should always strive for peaceful resolution of disputes. However, failing that peaceful resolution, I (and many others) prefer to reserve the right to maintain an ability to fight for our rights.
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08-09-2008 #33Originally Posted by NYBURBS
If you're going to play with the numbers, you'll find that a great many of the Jewish settlements in Nazi Germany were, in some cases up to the end, in denial over the situation. Ever read Night by Wiesel? He mentions in his book that in the settlement he lived in, the people there refused to flea, resist or otherwise act in response to witnesses who warned of the mass murders- witnesses who had happened to flea from such incidents and (for the time) survive.
There were, without a doubt, some that did resist, just as was the case with the French civilian population during occupation, but this wasn't the majority of these groups.
The resistance and survival odds were additionally burdened by the Nazi's data mining & tracking organizations. Most people have no idea just how well tracked people were in Nazi Germany, those IBM punch card machines were used for more than tracking prisoners already in the concentration camp system. They also tracked, using available documents in occupied territories, the non-captured civilian population. The Nazi units responsible for roaming the countryside to capture jews knew precisely how many of a given demographic they were hunting for in a given location, they knew how many were supposed to be in a given town, and had a rough idea on who they were looking for- not in terms of appearance or broad perceptions of demographics- but by names listed in local & regional government records, religious records, and other sources.
I cannot safely say this was the first time computer databases were put together exclusively to know the exact location of its civilians, as a tool for extermination programs, but it very well could have been.
Anyone who is upset over gun control based on this "slippery slope oppression concern" need to also be significantly concerned about the use of data mining operations, and the use of even public-domain public records. Considering the chunk of Bush Admin support that comes from gun control opponents- people who with exceptions seem to give a free pass to domestic spying programs and similar computer database tracking systems when these programs do not have to do with gun ownership- show that they are picking and choosing what tools of oppression to care about. Thus, for many- oppression really isn't anything in this dialog but a foot note argument added for dramatic effect.
And maybe its easier to withdraw from life
With all of its misery and wretched lies
If we're dead when tomorrow's gone
The Big Machine will just move on
Still we cling afraid we'll fall
Clinging like the memory which haunts us all
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08-09-2008 #34
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
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- 1,216
Originally Posted by Tomfurbs
certainly that was absolutely necessary and can easily be shown from the mysteriously absent cctv recordings
Elvis: I was dreamin'. Dreamin' my dick was out and I was checkin' to see if that infected bump on the head of it had filled with pus again. If it had, I was gonna name it after my ex-wife 'cilla and bust it by jackin' off.
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08-09-2008 #35Originally Posted by SarahG
Originally Posted by NYBURBS
As I also spoke to in my earlier post, this arbitrary categorizing of persons or groups as terrorists, and then claiming a right to withhold specific rights from them, is a terrifying concept. Today it is the Islamic Fundamentalists, tomorrow it could be any number of other groups. This is not to say I am a fan of the jihadists (I have little use for them or their religious ideology), but I am certainly not willing to abdicate the rights of persons we accuse of crimes (especially our own citizens).
I am not one to drink the Kool-Aid of political parties nor do I have a loyalty to any one specific group. Political parties require that you be subservient to their entire agenda, whereas I can agree on specific issues with one group, but disagree with them on others.
To be quite frank, I have little use for much of the modern day republican party. It is now dominated by fringe segments that are either bent on an imperialistic foreign policy, or obsessed with applying a religious moral code upon society. Long lost is the idea of smaller government and more individual responsibility for the outcome of their own lives.
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08-09-2008 #36Originally Posted by NYBURBS
And maybe its easier to withdraw from life
With all of its misery and wretched lies
If we're dead when tomorrow's gone
The Big Machine will just move on
Still we cling afraid we'll fall
Clinging like the memory which haunts us all
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08-09-2008 #37Originally Posted by SarahG
We were warned long ago by some rather great minds about the dangers of party loyalty. Unfortunately as a society we have largely ignored those warnings.
Originally Posted by WashintonFarewellAddress
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08-09-2008 #38Originally Posted by NYBURBS
When there are but two parties and they are virtually the same thing in practice (with most issues) then that changes things... especially when the people are sufficiently distracted by the few litmus test issues that separate the two party's maladaptive commonalities.
And maybe its easier to withdraw from life
With all of its misery and wretched lies
If we're dead when tomorrow's gone
The Big Machine will just move on
Still we cling afraid we'll fall
Clinging like the memory which haunts us all
-
08-09-2008 #39
Well, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one I think the two party set-up is the bane of our current political system. It discourages out-of-the-box ideas and solutions. Amendments would still require super majorities of both the Congress and States, so there's no reason to think that would become any easier.
I'm not advocating any type of legislation disallowing them, as that would be an affront to the right to association. I just hope that as we mature as a nation we might move away from this. However, term limits, and perhaps making it easier for people to get on ballots would be a welcome change.
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08-09-2008 #40
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As I've stated in the pages above, I'm not against gun ownership or the 2nd Amendment. I am aware that a significant portion of gun related deaths and injuries are due merely to accidents. Consequently I do support gun controls (as described in this thread) that would reduce these needless tragedies. Even though I support the 2nd Amendment, I do not recommend that everyone go out and buy a gun. If you were thinking of buying one, or perhaps getting rid of the one you already have but are having trouble making up your mind, here's a little guide that may be of some service
"...I no longer believe that people's secrets are defined and communicable, or their feelings full-blown and easy to recognize."_Alice Munro, Chaddeleys and Flemings.
"...the order in creation which you see is that which you have put there, like a string in a maze, so that you shall not lose your way". _Judge Holden, Cormac McCarthy's, BLOOD MERIDIAN.