"'cross-dressing tourists' in Dibai" various #'s

[BrendaQG]

Tough stance on those who mimic opposite sex

Rasha Abu Baker

* Last Updated: May 25. 2008 11:53PM UAE / May 25. 2008 7:53PM GMT

DUBAI // The Government should carry out research into a “dangerous” trend of cross-dressing that was becoming prevalent in schools, Dubai police said.

Police said a number of arrests have been made recently, mainly of male cross-dressers with long hair, make-up and women’s clothing in public places such as malls, parks, souks and schools.

Lt Gen Dahi Khalfan Tamim, the Dubai police chief, suggested yesterday that mixed education could be to blame and called on the Ministry of Social Affairs (MSA) to try to pinpoint the causes and establish the extent of the problem.

“The Ministry should study this to see whether the problem is society-based, and should offer solutions,” he said.

Lt Gen Tamim was speaking at the launch of a week-long awareness campaign sponsored by a number of government bodies, including Abu Dhabi police, the MSA and the Ministry of Religious Affairs, which hoped to draw attention to the issue. He said cross-dressing was prevalent in many secondary schools, high schools and universities.

The police could not explain why cross-dressing was growing in popularity, although Lt Gen Tamim believes that co-education and a lack of parental guidance could be factors.

Cross-dressers, or “the third sex” as they are often called, cause confusion for teachers, parents and pupils. The practice of dressing as a member of the opposite sex is particularly evident in all-male schools, but in girls’ high schools “boyat” – an Arabic slang term – is becoming increasingly commonplace.

Dressed to appear masculine, with short, boyish haircuts and an attitude to match, the female boyat befriends and flirts with other girls. However, innocent flirtation can lead to physical relations and even sexual assault.

Young men, dressed in flamboyant feminine clothes with matching make-up, have become an increasingly common image.

Lt Gen Tamim called on the MSA to look into the possibility that co-education was to blame. “Some studies conducted in the West indicate that mixing girls and boys can encourage this behaviour.”

The police chief suggested the introduction five years ago of mixed-sex education for children between first and sixth grade could be one reason for the sudden growth in cross-dressing.

“This phenomenon was not apparent until mixed education was introduced,” he said. “A boy brought up around girls, and a girl brought up around boys, will be affected by the behaviour of the opposite sex, which could cause confusion.”

Lt Gen Tamim added that although the problem was affecting government and private schools, there was more chance that being in a mixed environment could encourage this behaviour. “I call upon the Ministry of Social Affairs to conduct a field study to determine whether mixing children could be a possible reason for this behaviour.”

The police campaign aims to stamp out what is seen as a harmful trend in schools, while raising awareness among society.

“We aim to educate people, especially parents, on the dangers of cross-dressing and want to call on all sectors of society, including the education and religious bodies, to work together to fight this,” Lt Gen Tamim added.

The police also vowed to take a tougher stance against those caught mimicking or impersonating the opposite sex.

“If a girl dresses like a boy and a boy goes out dressed as the girl-next-door, they will be subjected to the law. It is illegal for a person to emulate the opposite sex and offend those around them,” he said.

He urged parents to spend more time with their children rather than leaving their upbringing to housemaids.

“Not all housemaids are qualified to raise children according to our culture,” he said.

Police declined yesterday to reveal the number of arrests that have been made in relation to cross-dressing.

[BrendaQG]

What I see in all of this is great deal of confusion in the Islamic world.

Far from a unified, and clear image of what to do with GLBT people I see a group that in a sense has not advanced in 1400 years. Basically nothing has changed since this story.


"Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 41, Number 4910: Narrated AbuHurayrah: A mukhannath who had dyed his hands and feet with henna was brought to the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him). He asked: What is the matter with this man? He was told: Apostle of Allah! he affects women's get-up. So he ordered regarding him and he was banished to an-Naqi'. The people said: Apostle of Allah! should we not kill him? He said: I have been prohibited from killing people who pray. AbuUsamah said: Naqi' is a region near Medina and not a Baqi (in other words not referring to Jannat al-Baqi cemetery. Indicating they were not punished.)'[1]"

I have posted it here before. To which it seems people are like yeah whatever. But really reflect on what it's saying.

A mob of people found a transwoman of some kind brought her to Muhammad and expected him to punish them, demanded that they be killed. This was not motivated by religion because when this happened Islam had not yet been fully revealed...these people were pagans just yesterday...yet the harbored a great trans and homo phobia. It is a safe bet that this was revealed after the Quranic story of Lut (lot, the prophet of Sodom in which the sin of Liwat is defined.)

When Muhammad said that this person could not be executed, or punished in any way for the mere open appearance of a Mukhannath (lit a man who resembels a woman). Instead the person was sent away. To a oasis town where they would be left in peace.

What we see in the UAE is that in that society unlike in Iran and Pakistan and Egypt or even Yemen they have not come to terms with the existence of such people in the midst. The other place I named are no strangers to being international destinations, with wealth, glamor and glamorous people be they male or female. For thoudans f years those other places were cosmopolitan. Whereas the UAE until oil was found there was a by water with little population that rarely saw outsiders of any kind. The UAE is a country struggling to define it self and reacting to the changes money brings.

Consider the guy in the above story who thinks that co educational schools would cause this behavior! So I guess a bit of situational homosexuality in a all male boarding madrasa is totally acceptable? (Don't say that can't happen they had a scandal just as bad as our priest scandal in the Tribal Area's of Pakistan over just that.)

It is likely any traswoman in the UAE up until 20 years ago would have caught the first Dhow to Egypt, Iran, or Pakistan...the place was totally dead. Now that there's money all kinds of new people are coming in from other Islamic countries, as well as non-Islamic Countries.

Like I said reserve judgment over all of this, right now media sources vary wildly over the number of people effected and the circumstances around each arrest.

[Tomfurbs]

Honey I never said that the Islamic world was heaven. All I have ever said is that it is not worse than it is here.

You like to mention Sharia punishments but not Sharia evidence standards. To prove in a Sharia court that one is guilty of anal sex is almost impossible unless you are a total exhibionist having sex virtually in public.

Name the last time gay man was killed for homosexuality in Saudi Arabia, or the UAE.

The last executions anyone knows of for that were in Iran and those as it turns out were not for loving homosexual sex. Those were the hangings of two boys who raped a younger boy.

Yes in the Islamic world we have extremist and we have moderates too. You cannot say that one or the other holds more sway in all cases.

'Honey', how can you say that it is not worse than it is here when you have never visited an Islamic nation? Your partisan, blinkered (outside the box lmao) thinking is pretty cold-hearted when it gets down to the nitty gritty. Bare in mind that you have just admitted Iran kills homosexuals. (but who cares about a couple of gays when your busy creating Allah's paradise on earth, right?)

Think about what you are saying. I very rarely defend the west because we have a long way to go ourselves, but at least you are free in the west to :

Say what you want.
Believe what you want.
Fuck who you want.
Read what you want.

If you are going to attempt to say that you can do all those things in Iran, Saudi, Yemen, Oman etc. then I am afraid you are reaching, girlfriend, and also betraying your ignorance.


Stonewall's website and Peter Tatchell's website (you won't have heard of him, he started 'Outrage', a homoexual support group in the UK) keep a tally of persecution and execution of homosexuals in the Islamic world. But of course, they are degenerate western liars whose only agenda is to smear the wondrous truth of Islam?



Here are some articles about this from the nasty biased western media:

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=3962

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-Facebook.html

http://www.petertatchell.net/religion/dark%20ages.htm


Brenda, if you travelled to Riyadh, met the man of your dreams there, and wanted to have sex with him, how do you think that would play with the Saudi Authorities? Do you think they would come over all lbgt llovey-dovey? Wouldn't bet the farm on it, eh?

[BrendaQG]

Tom I don't need to walk on the sun in order to know it would burn. I don't nee to go to the moon to know that I would need a space suit.

I say that most people who think like you about the Islamic world base their POV on ethnocentrism. On some level you think they have to be like us in order to be modern tolerant and advanced.

I say that they already are but in a way that makes sense to their culture. Gay westerners cannot go there and be as open about their sexuality as they are here. Straight westerners cannot go there and be as open about their sexuality as they are here. Sexuality in general is under wraps there. So if we are just talking about any sexuality all I can say is keep it to yourself in the Islamic world.

If we are talking about transsexual/transgender people I can cite precidents and actual court cases where people were put on trial over this. Where they were relased with no action taken agianst them. Going right back to the Prophet Muhammad.

All you can do in relation to TS/TG's is mention random hate crimes, which are a different story, and happen here in the USA today right now! Or what you have done is change the subject to gay people.

I have answered your emotional criticisms with reason. You say I will never go to the Islamic world. How will you feel when I go on Hajj to Saudia Arabia and return unmolested? Will you still impune my expertise then? In what world does a rank outsider know more about what it is to be in a group than a insider! I am a muslim I have worshipped with Muslims who knew my T no less. They are no activist at that mosque they are just from Albania and Pakistan. (I suppose in your racist mind a muslim is only really a muslim if they are an Arab!)

Where do you get off telling me how muslims would treat me.

to you is your way and to me is mine.

[hippifried]

True to an extent. Weather created by god or by man I am a strong beliver in meme theory.

At least the Abrahamic religion(s) are a memes which prevents more evil than they cause.

Really? & what religious memes would you say have caused more evil than they've prevented? I'm thinking your statement about Abramic religions is a meme in itself.

Imagine how violent west Eurasia would be if every village had it's own god?

They do now, really. It's just not necessarily a regional thing. When you boil them down, all religions are monotheist. There's always a creator. All monotheists believe in the same creator by default. But every sect of every one of them has a different take on the belief system. What's to imagine? Just look around.

Imagine how violent some people would get if they thought there would be no eternal punishment for the wicked.

& what, pray tell, makes you think that's a deterrent? If it was, shouldn't there be a corresponding drop in the amount of mass murder & persecution in the name of whatever belief? I can imagine the violence that would never have occurred without the attempt at forceful proselytization, even now with the war on Islam. Make no mistake. That's what the "war on terror" is.

Got any more memes you want to toss out there?

My thinking is that religious memetics have only served to obfuscate the Universal Code of Human Interaction, commonly known as "the golden rule", through the institution of arbitrary rules. The Code is what defines morality & ethics. It's our conscience. One's point of view is irrelevant because the Code works if seen as purely egoistic, purely altruistic,or any combination in between. Adherence to the Code requires no religious belief whatsoever. Just the knowlege that you would react negatively to certain actions, so it's in your own self interest to avoid those same negative reactions from others. The Code is what makes us social critters & allows us to live in close proximity to others of our own species. It's social logic at its most basic, & I think it's hardwired into our very being as an instinct. We follow it most of the time because it's natural. We have to come up with abstracts & justifications to talk ourselves into deliberately violating the Code.

Aaah, & so the point emerges...

If you can't relate it to the Code, it's not a moral issue. Any rule that doesn't relate to the Code is just arbitrary, & an arbitrary rule can never be universal because there's always those who see the arbitrariness & won't buy it. That's the problem with religious memes. It's expected that you'll buy into the whole package if you buy into any part of it. It just doesn't work that way. Ergo global religious strife dating back to prehistory. Maybe it's time to just junk the memes. Religious power is just power. It's a tool for putting a set of elitists in charge of everyone else. It's no different from monarchy or any other kind of dictatorship. It stifles the human ability to make choices. That ability is what makes social progress possible & puts us on top of the food chain. Religious memes just get in the way slow down the process.

[BrendaQG]

@ Hippie

You decry religion then mention the golden ruel. That came from the scriptures of Christianity and was enunciated by the prophet Issa (Jesus, Peace be Upon Him). Even you base your philosophy on religion!

Matthew 7 v12

Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Luke 6 v31

And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

Take a gander at this. Look at the transwomen in this film who have lived in an Islamic country all their lives. If such people are persecuted then why are they still alive?



I'll tell you why. Because unlike those who traveld to the Emirates and sparked this post they have done no real wrong. They are just living as Muslims in Muslim land and being queer.

I am willing to admit that the house of Islam has it's problems. Are you willing to admit that it also has good aspects even for GLTB people? ( Think not because I am now convinced that Islamophobia is the one raging bigotry that GLBT and allies allow themselves to have. A really rabid unthinking condemnation of a 1.4 billion people and our beliefs. How else am I to interpret someone saying that Muslims should disregard the holy Qr'an and instead base all religion on two utterances of Jesus Christ! Naught but conversion to the sometimes religiosity of most americans!)

[Tomfurbs]

You say I will never go to the Islamic world.

Where do you get off telling me how muslims would treat me.

I never said you will never go to the Islamic world. Try reading my posts before responding.

Yes this topic makes me emotional, because Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, and religion makes me emotional. I can get off telling you how muslim's would treat you because A) I live in a predominantly muslim (Pakistani) part of London and have more day-to-day contact with ordinary muslims than you I expect, and B) because I have travelled to the Middle East more than once. You have never done so.

People within the LGBT community have every right to be Islamophobic, bacause of how they are talked about by Islamic Clerics. Just as they have a right to hate Fundamentalist Christians and Homophobes of all stripes. It has fuck-all to do with 'fashion'. If you cannot see that Gay rights and Transgendered rights are linked then you obviously have not covered Inductive Reasoning in your Uni course yet.

All you can do in relation to TS/TG's is mention random hate crimes, which are a different story, and happen here in the USA today right now!

Trying to equate hate crimes in the west ( I assume you are including Europe in 'The West' - hey...have you ever travelled to Europe?) against Gays and Transsexuals with the Middle East is akin to trying top equate the McCarthy Witch-hunt's with Stalin's purges.

Your argument, while coldly emotionless, is by no means reasoned. Strangely (for a 'scientist') you choose to believe what you want to believe rather than what is before your own eyes.

The clerics I quoted in my earlier posts are not Islamofacists or fundamentalists. They are respected mouthpieces of the mainstream. Not to mention the quotes from those spiritual texts. So I say again:

Why would you want to have anything to do with an organisation that harboured such execrable views?

Ohh...why did you call me a racist?

[BrendaQG]

Oh yeah right tom.

A transsexual beaten to death in Arabia has it so much worse than a transsexual beaten to death in Brooklyn. Dead is dead.

To blame the dominant religion or culture for the acts of violent people in it is either a cop out, or ethnocentricity.

Just face it for some reason you harbor a bias against the Islamic world in this regard.

[Tomfurbs]

Religion is human weakness. It is our attempt to deal with the existential crisis that is the Human Condition. After all religions/faith systems/ superstitions/ myths/ legends have been considered, we are no closer to knowing why we are here, how the universe came into being, or what happens when we die.

The fact that people have used religion (human weakness) as a cover for their own Women-Hatred and Homophobia angers me. In our lifetime, Islam is the most forthright practitioner of this. Therefore, I have contempt for Islam, just as I have contempt for all crack-pot belief systems.

If you think that opinion is racist, then may I suggest you go back to school and learn about what words mean.


When someone (who has actually travelled there)levels criticism at The Middle-East , it actually means they care about the people who live there.

Trying to cut down criticism of Islam by saying that it is just prejudice on the part of the criticiser is a convenient, but pathetic, argument, and implies you are being defensive.

[BrendaQG]

You all know my position. Now feel free to conform to the Islamophobia of the GLBT community.