i am tired of explaining

[vietboy]

i wouldn't say your comments about me are pejorative, but they are highly subjective and flawed. and, wow, for someone so dead set on not labeling, you sure put a lot of time and effort into attempting to paint me as something...and that's even before you get to the little naming party in that last paragraph. but don't get me wrong, i appreciate the effort. must have taken you awhile to cobble that post together.

the be all and end all of it is that this isn't about me or you, individually. it's about all of us, ya know?

ps - still laughing...hahahaha!

I appreciate your thoughts and I don't mean to indicate that I am "dead-set on not labeling". In fact, I think labels can be a fair, and accurate, way of summarizing many different clues about a person's nature. I just don't believe in getting too wound up by the labels. So, someone is "gay" or "straight", but his or her value as a person is not encompassed by the label, and a label should not restrict anyone. So someone who identifies as mostly straight should not be limited by this, or devalued in anyway. The various various identifiers for race are a sort of label, for instance. But hopefully no one will think less of President Obama because he identifies as a black man. Labels are part of day-to-day life but should never be used against anyone.

[whatsupwithat]

i wouldn't say your comments about me are pejorative, but they are highly subjective and flawed. and, wow, for someone so dead set on not labeling, you sure put a lot of time and effort into attempting to paint me as something...and that's even before you get to the little naming party in that last paragraph. but don't get me wrong, i appreciate the effort. must have taken you awhile to cobble that post together.

the be all and end all of it is that this isn't about me or you, individually. it's about all of us, ya know?

ps - still laughing...hahahaha!

I appreciate your thoughts and I don't mean to indicate that I am "dead-set on not labeling". In fact, I think labels can be a fair, and accurate, way of summarizing many different clues about a person's nature. I just don't believe in getting too wound up by the labels. So, someone is "gay" or "straight", but his or her value as a person is not encompassed by the label, and a label should not restrict anyone. So someone who identifies as mostly straight should not be limited by this, or devalued in anyway. The various various identifiers for race are a sort of label, for instance. But hopefully no one will think less of President Obama because he identifies as a black man. Labels are part of day-to-day life but should never be used against anyone.

right. i agree. see, obama couldn't refer to himself as a pink man. it's not in our scope of what exists in human labels. a label is a starting point as in my previous reference to trees. i could point to one and say to you, "that's a tree." if it was a tree, you would agree. now if we got into what kind of tree...this one's a maple, that's an oak, and so on...you would also understand while recognizing that they are all trees. apply that to human beings and voila! i know you know what i'm talking about...and i se where you're coming from. you are seeing the forest through trees...but to get there we have to see the trees.

[whatsupwithat]

I am sorry I offend some of you when I call you fags, it is truly an endearing term to me, but when I say it to someone who I am pissed off at I truly mean they are acting like fags. You know... The shady queens who are bitter about life and have nothing better to do then spread attitude and hate.

Truth is... I admire your strength and more men should be like you. You are a truly deserving human being, living your life honestly. You are blessed and confident with who you are.

Every man and woman in this board and else where should aspire to your strength and devotion to living your life with your true self calling in your conscience.

I can keep going but you already know all this. I think a true man is one of strength, one who is true to himself and honest to those he loves.

No need to explain yourself, and if I did anything to upset you it truly was not meant for you... as you may know.

i truly don't know how to respond except to say thank you. your words of support mean so much to me. as more and more men in the community find themselves and work towards expressing that self, it's the support and love of people like yourself who will truly make a difference...and are making a difference today. thank you.

[nicoleneuman24]

you're gay, eric!

[whatsupwithat]

you're gay, eric!

nerd!! :P

[mrironknee]

i wouldn't say your comments about me are pejorative, but they are highly subjective and flawed. and, wow, for someone so dead set on not labeling, you sure put a lot of time and effort into attempting to paint me as something...and that's even before you get to the little naming party in that last paragraph. but don't get me wrong, i appreciate the effort. must have taken you awhile to cobble that post together.

the be all and end all of it is that this isn't about me or you, individually. it's about all of us, ya know?

ps - still laughing...hahahaha!

I appreciate your thoughts and I don't mean to indicate that I am "dead-set on not labeling". In fact, I think labels can be a fair, and accurate, way of summarizing many different clues about a person's nature. I just don't believe in getting too wound up by the labels. So, someone is "gay" or "straight", but his or her value as a person is not encompassed by the label, and a label should not restrict anyone. So someone who identifies as mostly straight should not be limited by this, or devalued in anyway. The various various identifiers for race are a sort of label, for instance. But hopefully no one will think less of President Obama because he identifies as a black man. Labels are part of day-to-day life but should never be used against anyone.

right. i agree. see, obama couldn't refer to himself as a pink man. it's not in our scope of what exists in human labels. a label is a starting point as in my previous reference to trees. i could point to one and say to you, "that's a tree." if it was a tree, you would agree. now if we got into what kind of tree...this one's a maple, that's an oak, and so on...you would also understand while recognizing that they are all trees. apply that to human beings and voila! i know you know what i'm talking about...and i se where you're coming from. you are seeing the forest through trees...but to get there we have to see the trees.

I think that I will never see, a poem lovely as a tree.

Here's the deal. All guys that are into males are gay.
All guys that are into transsexuals are gay too, except me. (I hope)

I think that clears it up for everyone.

(ps - still smirking)

[vietboy]

see, obama couldn't refer to himself as a pink man. it's not in our scope of what exists in human labels.

Yes, I agree, but I dissent from this. Obama could call himself a pink man, on the basis of his pink-skinned mom or simply if he felt like calling himself a pink man because of what pink might represent to him. He'd have to burn some energy trying to articulate a rationale to those with blank expressions on their faces. Some might dispute him, just as some disputed the assertion that Bill Clinton is the first black president, because he's clearly not black skinned. Moreover, you invented a new meaning for transsexual and applied it to yourself, and Mandy disputed you. Who is anyone to argue with a burly guy who feels he's really a woman? It is an entirely subjective area, and we can be sensitive to the feelings of others in our descriptions... i.e, it's a fir tree who self-identifies as a maple. There is room for creativity and the trees should not get too tied up in knots about labels, because in the end they're all still trees.

[whatsupwithat]

see, obama couldn't refer to himself as a pink man. it's not in our scope of what exists in human labels.

Yes, I agree, but I dissent from this. Obama could call himself a pink man, on the basis of his pink-skinned mom or simply if he felt like calling himself a pink man because of what pink might represent to him. He'd have to burn some energy trying to articulate a rationale to those with blank expressions on their faces. Some might dispute him, just as some disputed the assertion that Bill Clinton is the first black president, because he's clearly not black skinned. Moreover, you invented a new meaning for transsexual and applied it to yourself, and Mandy disputed you. Who is anyone to argue with a burly guy who feels he's really a woman? It is an entirely subjective area, and we can be sensitive to the feelings of others in our descriptions... i.e, it's a fir tree who self-identifies as a maple. There is room for creativity and the trees should not get too tied up in knots about labels, because in the end they're all still trees.

ha! i love the little digs hidden in there. burly guy...that one brought a smile.

again, i agree with you and i see where you're coming from...but even your non-labeling relies on labels. there's really no way around it unless we all have one giant enlightenment and transcend our realities.

[vietboy]

Here's the deal. All guys that are into males are gay.
All guys that are into transsexuals are gay too, except me. (I hope)

Kind of funny how gay provokes such a visceral response. My Vietnamese friends can be called Asian, that's okay. Call them Chinese or Filipino and they'll usually correct the person in error as politely and casually as possible. But call them gay, even the ones who suck cock, and the gloves are off!

[mrironknee]

Here's the deal. All guys that are into males are gay.
All guys that are into transsexuals are gay too, except me. (I hope)

Kind of funny how gay provokes such a visceral response. My Vietnamese friends can be called Asian, that's okay. Call them Chinese or Filipino and they'll usually correct the person in error as politely and casually as possible. But call them gay, even the ones who suck cock, and the gloves are off!

Let me see if I understand you correctly;
You are Vietnamese, and you have friends who are also Vietnamese and are gay. These friends wear gloves at all times, but take them off to suck cock.

Thanks, got it!