Cheney and the Oil Bigs Planned U.S. War Policy Before 9/11

[chefmike]

Dishonesty about 9/11 motives robs Americans of the freedom to decide for ourselves if we want to put our lives at risk over specific foreign policies.
http://representativepress.blogspot....ives-robs.html

Yup. And also:

".....the belief in vast conspiracy theories can also be hugely damaging as it distracts people from real issues and keeps them focused on exciting fantasies that make them feel important. The 9/11 truth movement was enormously helpful to the Bush Administration as it provided a giant distraction from the colossal crimes they committed in Iraq and Afghanistan. If their energies had been directed in a positive way, there's a good chance Bush would have been impeached and Dick Cheney thrown in jail. Alas, the 9/11 truth movement dedicated its time to proving the U.S government tried to kill thousands of its own people in exchange for gold/political power."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ben-co..._b_243647.html

[El Nino]

Well Chef, many people that register higher intelligence quotients than yourself, disagree with such a small frame of reference.
Richard Gage, member of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, is interviewed on KMPH Fox 26 in Fresno, California.

[trish]

It has nothing to do with intelligence quotients and everything to do with intellectual integrity. A photo of one or two beams which have sheared at forty five degree angles without anything in the picture to indicate orientation or placement is not proof anything. Some three second sound bites of engineers saying those single sheers are like the ones produced by thermite shaping is not proof or even evidence of thermite shaping. You want evidence, then you need to work for it. You need a theory that predicts the what the distribution of shearing cleavages and their orientations throughout the site would be were the tower brought down by thermite charges. Then you need data enough to construct the actual distribution. If the two don't match within tolerance, you have to throw out the theory. If they do match within acceptable tolerances, then you have some evidence. I haven't seen ANY of this. Without the proper methodology there can be no evidence.

[El Nino]

No Trish, You need proper theory and methodology...
NIST Final WTC7 Report Conclusion
is an Absolute Impossibility. http://tyrannyalert.com/800.html

[trish]

Sorry, there['s] no data for calculating a shear angle and orientation distribution at that site. Try again.

[hippifried]

The first collapse wasn't straight down. The building toppled at the point of impact. That peeled the steel exoskeleton like a banana, breaking the anchors at the outside of the floors. It pancaked down from there.

This blows the conspiracy nonsense out the window, because the planes were being flown by suicidal amateurs. They weren't counting floors. Hell, the second plane almost missed the target altogether. There was nothing preplanned from the inside, & there's no physical evidence to support any such theories or even the questions.

I still think the second collapse was caused by ground liquifaction due to the first collapse. That's a lot of weight hitting the ground. It's like a small earthquake. Difference is that the epicenter is right there & the pressure's from the top instead of the bottom, along the same bedrock strata holding both structures. Concrete can withstand a lot of downward pressure, but it can't take a lot of shear stress. The footings shattered, & the rest of the interior concrete superstructure followed suit. The second collapse was a pancake all the way down. Identical to the damage you see when major earthquakes hit cities.

[techi]

Dishonesty about 9/11 motives robs Americans of the freedom to decide for ourselves if we want to put our lives at risk over specific foreign policies.
http://representativepress.blogspot....ives-robs.html

Yup. And also:

".....the belief in vast conspiracy theories can also be hugely damaging as it distracts people from real issues and keeps them focused on exciting fantasies that make them feel important. The 9/11 truth movement was enormously helpful to the Bush Administration as it provided a giant distraction from the colossal crimes they committed in Iraq and Afghanistan. If their energies had been directed in a positive way, there's a good chance Bush would have been impeached and Dick Cheney thrown in jail. Alas, the 9/11 truth movement dedicated its time to proving the U.S government tried to kill thousands of its own people in exchange for gold/political power."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ben-co..._b_243647.html

I disagree with the idea that investigating 9/11 is a "distraction". 9/11 was misused as the catalyst for 2 horrible wars. At this point in time it's not only the issue of what actually happened on 9/11 but also what happened during the 9/11 Commission investigation itself. Did the Bush administration steer or interfere with the investigation to obtain pro-invade Iraq propaganda? Did they hinder investigation of certain individuals(Saudi's) for personal political gain?

Where I think that perhaps the "truther" movement goes in the wrong direction is that they put a lot of emphasis on trying to actually be the investigators. It would be better to focus on the need for a real investigation to take the place of George Bush's Kangaroo investigation.

Also, the term "truther" seems to cover a fantastic amount of ground. There's a wide variety of critics out there, some with very modest critisisms and others with rather wild ones. There's definently some crazy video's on youtube. I remember seeing one claiming that there no planes hit WTC1&2. Of course the video angle is from the wrong side of the buildings so you couldn't see a thing and regardless... my first thoughts were... gee, it's not that hard to edit video these days so why should I beleive this. There's just a tremendous amount of useless stuff like this out there.

What was bad about the 9/11 Commission investigation? For one, it was riddled with conflicts of interest. For starters just look at the Commissions chairman, Thomas Kean.

"Thomas Kean is a director and shareholder of Amerada Hess Corporation, which is involved in the Hess-Delta joint venture with Delta Oil of Saudi Arabia. Hess-Delta was established in 1998 for the development and exploration of oil fields in the caspian region."

Over half of the suspected hijackers were Saudi and our military presence in the caspian region has increased due in part to the events of 9/11. How is it acceptable that Thomas Kean was running the investigation? He should never have been appointed, and having been appointed he should have declined the offer.

And Thomas Kean was the 2nd Commission Chair selected that had significant conflicts of interest. The first selection was Henry Kissinger who stepped down within weeks due to conflicts of interest.

A real investigation into 9/11 is needed. One that isn't lead by a pack of people with clear conflicts of interest.

[El Nino]

The World Trade Towers were designed to survive a collision by a Jumbo Jet.

Frank DeMartini, the Chief Construction Engineer of the WTC complex, gave an interview on January 21, 2001, and spoke confidently regarding the crash-worthiness of the design.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3g...-world-trade-c

[trish]

I'm sorry, that web-site didn't have the distribution data either. Try again.

[notdrunk]

The World Trade Towers were designed to survive a collision by a Jumbo Jet.

Frank DeMartini, the Chief Construction Engineer of the WTC complex, gave an interview on January 21, 2001, and spoke confidently regarding the crash-worthiness of the design.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3g...-world-trade-c

It was designed to survive a 707 collision; however, what about the aftermath of the collision? Various variables come into effect (e.g., distortion of the steel by the fire).