Supreme Court ruled today on the D.C. gun ban

[phosepete]

Ahhh - excellent. I love watching the continuing decline of America and how it provides amusement to the rest of the developed world.

Like a car crash in slow motion ...

Hmm, after cleaning up europe's mess not once but twice in the last century, most Americans have little patience for crybaby bullshit/snobbery from euro-peons.

hint: there's a reason it's called the "old world"; because it's reached a point of economic, political, and cultural obsolescence.

230 years ago we were just europe's rejects and cast-offs; today the 27 countries of the EU combined can just barely match our GDP. 51% of the world defense spending is ours, and after kicking the asses of Japan, Germany, and forcing the USSR into bankruptcy we're in little mood to listen to the ungrateful mewling from the very people whose asses we saved. I strongly suspect that a lot of the arrogance and snobbery of europeons comes from comes from a rather large inferiority complex; they've been left in the dust by a group of people they rejected and kicked out, and that's got to really hurt the ole' cultural pride thingy.

To paraphrase something Jack Nicholson said in one of his roles, we don't care to listen to the complaints of a man who lives in the shadow of the protection we provide, then questions the manner in which we provide it. We're better than you in every way, we know it, and deep down inside in places that you don't talk about at parties you know it too.

[trish]

Paladin writes:

what are you smoking? "The People" ALWAYS refers to individuals. As I stated earlier, read the 10th ammendment.

Except when it doesn’t. The national parks belong to the people, but individuals can only visit them. The nation’s resources belong to the people, but only corporations reap them. The government is of the people, but only collectively, unless your personal friends with Dick Cheney. In the second amendment, “the people” refers to those who would serve in a State Militia…not to women…nor girls…nor to two slaves who as a sum were equal to more than one citizen. The second amendment only exists because some States were fearful that the Federal government would disband the State militias and replace them with a Federal army.

[GroobySteven]

Ahhh - excellent. I love watching the continuing decline of America and how it provides amusement to the rest of the developed world.

Like a car crash in slow motion ...

Hmm, after cleaning up europe's mess not once but twice in the last century, most Americans have little patience for crybaby bullshit/snobbery from euro-peons.

hint: there's a reason it's called the "old world"; because it's reached a point of economic, political, and cultural obsolescence.

230 years ago we were just europe's rejects and cast-offs; today the 27 countries of the EU combined can just barely match our GDP. 51% of the world defense spending is ours, and after kicking the asses of Japan, Germany, and forcing the USSR into bankruptcy we're in little mood to listen to the ungrateful mewling from the very people whose asses we saved. I strongly suspect that a lot of the arrogance and snobbery of europeons comes from comes from a rather large inferiority complex; they've been left in the dust by a group of people they rejected and kicked out, and that's got to really hurt the ole' cultural pride thingy.

To paraphrase something Jack Nicholson said in one of his roles, we don't care to listen to the complaints of a man who lives in the shadow of the protection we provide, then questions the manner in which we provide it. We're better than you in every way, we know it, and deep down inside in places that you don't talk about at parties you know it too.

... and you have illustrated my points better than I ever could.

Thanks for the amusement, I'll be sure to send this one around!

[El Nino]

A gun in your hand is better than a cop on the phone. You people can't actually think that the government can protect you and make you safe, can you? Your personal safety is best guaranteed by your own hand. I know when some thug breaks into my house, he will be dealt with promptly and properly. Its my life dammit. And for any of you that try to twist and spin the 2nd amendment around to fit you liberal, nanny state, pipe dreams, it ain't gonna work. It is clearly defined and shall not be infringed. It is one of the most important rights in any free sate.

Seanchai, you have a problem with our 2nd amendment? You think you can rely on something or somebody else to protect you? Ha, that's quite comical.
Listen Up Bro:

The Second Amendment to our Constitution states:

“A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.”

This Amendment does not “grant” any rights. It guarantees a “right of the people” that already exists. The “well-regulated Militia” of which it speaks does not mean the federally armed and sponsored National Guard, but rather indigenous people skilled in both the use of firearms as well as teamwork in the field.

Such a militia was necessary not for the security of any old willy-nilly state, but of a “free state.” Militias played a vital part in securing this nation's independence. The Founders understood that an armed populace was an essential counterforce against tyranny.

***The history of the last century bears witness to this. Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership posts a wonderful illustration of the relationship between gun control and genocide. Various degrees of gun control – licensing, confiscation, bans on private ownership, bans on concealed carry, requiring demonstration of a “need” to own a firearm – led to genocide in Armenia, Soviet Russia, Nazi Germany, Red China, Guatemala, Uganda, Cambodia and Rwanda.

The world’s worst sickos can be found in government. The sicker they are, the more power they accumulate. Show me a tyrant – Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Kim Il-Sung, Kim Jong-Il, Castro – who is not certifiably insane. The ultimate aim of gun control is to totally disarm the citizenry and leave them defenseless against psychopaths who pull the strings and levers of power.

If you believe “we should take away all the guns,” ask yourself what you mean by “we” as well as how such a “take away” shall be implemented.

If you believe “we should take away all the guns,” you had better think twice. And three or four or five times if necessary.

I did not arrive at all my current beliefs overnight, so I do not expect you to, either. You do not have to like any of this. Just don’t let your emotions interfere with your quest for truth.

[El Nino]

FACT!

Nazi Germany's style of "gun control" removed the last barrier to the genocide of 13 million people--over 6 million were Jewish--just 50 years ago. It was called "The Final Solution". Disarming citizens was key in the success of this misguided political scheme.

"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms; history shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subjected people to carry arms have prepared their own fall." (Adolf Hitler)

America has idolized her children. Our enemies know this fact well. Liberties are incrementally eliminated by making our children victims, and demonizing our freedoms (especially the 2nd Amendment) as the cause. What a brilliant strategy--America voluntarily rejects her blood-bought freedoms to secure a false peace and safety. Historians will remember this generation as "the one who gave it all away."



The point is clear and very simple, don't fuck with the Bill of Rights, and/or support politicians that do. The proof is in the pudding, bitches.

[phosepete]

Paladin writes:

what are you smoking? "The People" ALWAYS refers to individuals. As I stated earlier, read the 10th ammendment.

Except when it doesn’t. The national parks belong to the people, but individuals can only visit them. The nation’s resources belong to the people, but only corporations reap them. The government is of the people, but only collectively, unless your personal friends with Dick Cheney. In the second amendment, “the people” refers to those who would serve in a State Militia…not to women…nor girls…nor to two slaves who as a sum were equal to more than one citizen. The second amendment only exists because some States were fearful that the Federal government would disband the State militias and replace them with a Federal army.

to be specific, when used in the context of rights, "people" always refers to individual; "people" only has a collective use when referring to the exercise or reservation of powers.

a. “Right of the People.” The first salient feature of
the operative clause is that it codifies a “right of the peo-
ple.” The unamended Constitution and the Bill of Rights
use the phrase “right of the people” two other times, in the
First Amendment’s Assembly-and-Petition Clause and in
the Fourth Amendment’s Search-and-Seizure Clause. The
Ninth Amendment uses very similar terminology (“The
enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall
not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by
the people”). All three of these instances unambiguously
refer to individual rights, not “collective” rights, or rights
that may be exercised only through participation in some
corporate body.... Three provisions of the Constitution refer to “the people”
in a context other than “rights”—the famous preamble
(“We the people”), §2 of Article I (providing that “the peo-
ple” will choose members of the House), and the Tenth
Amendment (providing that those powers not given the
Federal Government remain with “the States” or “the
people”). Those provisions arguably refer to “the people”
acting collectively—but they deal with the exercise or
reservation of powers, not rights. Nowhere else in the
Constitution does a “right” attributed to “the people” refer
to anything other than an individual right

[phosepete]

... and you have illustrated my points better than I ever could.

Thanks for the amusement, I'll be sure to send this one around!

by all means please do; I'm really getting tired of listening to snooty europeans suffering from the delusion that they're still somehow relevant.

[trish]

The ultimate aim of gun control is to totally disarm the citizenry and leave them defenseless against psychopaths who pull the strings and levers of power.

Now you’re just setting up a straw man. The aims (ultimate or not) of firearm regulation are analogous to the aims we have in regulation drivers and vehicles. The paramount aim is to insure that drivers know the conventions and procedures that optimize their own safety and perhaps more importantly the safety of others. Drivers are required to periodically prove their competence and renew their licenses. Not only are drivers licensed but so are cars. We do this not to keep cars out of the hands of criminals; nor to deprive the citizenry of transportation. We do this because two ton cars hurtling down the highway at expressway speeds are fucking dangerous. Guns are dangerous too. I see no reason why gun users shouldn’t be required to have current licenses and why guns shouldn’t be registered. No body wants to take away your guns. That is NOT the ultimate aim, or any aim of gun control. That’s just a fear tactic.

Oh, and if you’re afraid the commies (or the FEDS) might know where all the guns are if we register them, well, they’ve already downloaded the membership list of the NRA. If you want to keep your guns safe from the commies…quit the NRA now and move to another town so they can’t find you.

[El Nino]

Nice job cherry picking. I already made the greater point abundantly clear. Give it up. Let the people be free

BTW, Nice assumption that I am in the NRA, but I am not nor will I ever be. Not a fan of the backdoor regulations by the chairs and leadership. The members on the other hand are a great bunch by and large, but need to realize that the NRA is now in the hands of people who twist and distort the 2nd.

[Oli]

The third paragraph of the BBC article disproves your initial argument sport.

But at the same time, the trend in gun crime overall has been going down.

You realize that England and Wales has a population of some 53 million people.

There were 59 homicides with firearms. (0.11/100,000 people)
There were, using your data, 18,489 firearm offenses. (3.55/100,000 people)

Yeah, gun violence is out of control in England!


Let's bring this closer to home, there were 16 firearm homicides in Toronto in 2007, in a population of 2.48 million. (0.645/100,000 people) Man, the firearm homicide rate in Toronto is almost 6 times that of England. You guys need gun control.

http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/statistics/ytd_stats.php