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  1. #31
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    Default Re: Hillary Clinton: I Used to Love Her

    Quote Originally Posted by Stavros View Post
    I don't know much about the Republicans other than their names and that Rand Paul is seen as more moderate than Marc Rubio. .
    I just looked at Rand Paul's positions on wikipedia. He is a modified libertarian. He is a libertarian when it comes to protecting private property rights and opposing regulations that he believes infringe on them, but somewhat of a traditionalist when it comes to same sex marriage and abortion rights.

    He is pro-life, he opposes the right of the epa to enforce environmental standards, he believes in a balanced budget (regardless of the programs that need to be funded), and a flat tax. Achieving a balanced budget with a flat tax would require an enormous reduction in all sorts of programs. I would need to see exactly how he plans to implement it but I can't imagine a flat tax doing anything but significantly reducing our tax base.

    He opposes anti-discrimination legislation, including proposed and existing laws intended to protect against invidious discrimination in the workplace, in housing, and in places of public accommodation. He opposes all forms of gun control, claiming that they infringe on second amendment rights. That's a position that the Supreme Court does not take, but like his father he apparently does not view the Supreme Court as the ultimate arbiter of constitutionality but rather the Paul family. He wants to repeal the patient protection and affordable care act (Obamacare). He wants seniors who receive medicare to be more accountable for the entitlements they receive….I think that means that their benefits are slashed.

    He thinks gay couples should enter into marriage contracts while maintaining the traditional definition of marriage for straight couples. This basically means that gay couples would be able to control by private agreement the financial consequences of their intimate relationship but would not have their partnership recognized by the state. One part homophobia, one part libertarian quackery. A marriage contract? Perhaps instead of a wedding they should have a signing.

    He does not think the Federal Reserve should have the right to control money supply or set interest rates.

    I think his foreign policy is probably more moderate than that of any of his opponents as he opposes the more invasive tactics of the NSA and CIA. He also takes more liberal stances with regard to enforcing drug laws.


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  2. #32
    Silver Poster fred41's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hillary Clinton: I Used to Love Her

    Quote Originally Posted by broncofan View Post
    I think his foreign policy is probably more moderate than that of any of his opponents as he opposes the more invasive tactics of the NSA and CIA. He also takes more liberal stances with regard to enforcing drug laws.
    I only disagree with this last sentence. I don't consider Isolationists 'moderate'. They seem that way because they're usually against foreign wars...but so what? That's only because Isolationists generally want nothing to do with the rest of the world. No matter what happens, it's always going to be - "Not our problem."
    I noticed though , that he's starting to take a step back from that stance, but I think that's just because of the upcoming primary.



  3. #33
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    Default Re: Hillary Clinton: I Used to Love Her

    Quote Originally Posted by fred41 View Post
    I only disagree with this last sentence. I don't consider Isolationists 'moderate'.
    I agree with you there. I sort of lost sight of whether I was talking about being moderate (more progressive) or just different from the other Republican candidates. Rand Paul's father was an absolutist I think when it came to his isolationism. I've always thought that's a patently unreasonable stance.



  4. #34
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    Default Re: Hillary Clinton: I Used to Love Her

    Quote Originally Posted by fred41 View Post
    There are always going to be 'firsts' in an election just as there are 'firsts' in the Oscars. There will be a first hispanic, asian, Jew, gay,etc...plus all the opposite gender 'firsts' to go along with it...perhaps a transsexual, hindu, buddhist...whatever. we have a tendency to celebrate 'firsts' forever... fuck all that, i don't believe firsts are that big a deal anymore; I think anyone can now get elected in the USA given the right circumstance...within reason.
    So I don't think it's "time" for any particular gender or ethnic persuasion. A woman will get elected either now or at some point. I don't believe that's a barrier anymore. But right now we don't even know what other Democrat will run until they announce. The republican party is still pretty fractured at this point so that even if no other democrat ran, Mrs.Clinton would still have a very decent shot at beating them...but maybe not the best chance.
    I believe she lost to President Obama in the primary because he was a fresh face who at least seemed to stand for certain ideals...and he was young and cool; not a bad thing when young people came out in droves to vote for change. She seemed like the typical machine politician, and she proved it when she used that "phone call' commercial against him.
    I usually vote republican in most elections. I didn't vote for Obama...but I can honestly say I'm not dissappointed he won. Both times. I actually think when you remove all the nuance...he pretty much stood by his real (non political) convictions in the long run. I think what hurts him most is that he doesn't understand the importance of perception when it comes to foreign policy. I think he's tone deaf on that issue, but hey, most presidents stumble after trhis long a time in office...but Hillary....i honestly don't think she stands for anything. She could be good or bad...it all depends on which way the wind blows.
    Thanks for your thoughts, I agree with you about the 'firsts', compared to the UK it is actually something you do well, though for some it is little more than window dressing. In the end, politics ought to be about substance, but I do also wonder if the 'vision' thing is important. Obama in this respect was rather like Reagan in that both had a 'vision' of an America different from the one they claimed was not working at the time, and both have patchy records on delivery. I suspect that the reality of US politics is messy because a President is not responsible for a lot that happens, even at the Federal level, and your states system devolves power away from Washington DC. Nevertheless, a key factor in the US is the relationship that a President has with Congress. I think this has been a weakness for Obama (as it was for Jimmy Carter), and does suggest that the 'liberalization' of the US that put Onama into the White House (if that is what it was), has yet to make a difference in Congress -because if there was such a shift to the 'left' then where are the Democrats in the Senate and the House? On this basis I do wonder if Mrs Clinton could build a better relationship with Congress, not least because of the hostility that both she and her husband had to deal with last time. But until another Democrat puts themselves forward, we are just speculating, fun as it is...



  5. #35
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    Default Re: Hillary Clinton: I Used to Love Her

    Broncofan, re your post on Rubio -
    Thanks for the information, I am just glad he isn't running for office in the UK!



  6. #36
    Platinum Poster Ben's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hillary Clinton: I Used to Love Her

    Progressives Line Up to Defend Clinton Corruption:

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/04/...on-corruption/



  7. #37
    Platinum Poster Ben's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hillary Clinton: I Used to Love Her

    Hillary Clinton: "Start Thinking Of Iraq As A Business Opportunity"




  8. #38
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    Default Re: Hillary Clinton: I Used to Love Her

    Obviously I did not watch all 10+ hours of the hearings on Benghazi that were held in Washington a few days ago, but I must concede that Mrs Clinton was impressive throughout, even if the core issue on Libya is not just the attack in Benghazi but whether or not it was right for the USA to engage in regime change in Libya that led to the overthrow of Qadhafi -as Mrs Clinton has been quoted as saying 'We came, we saw, he died'. It has been argued in the link below that it was Mrs Clinton along with Samantha Power and Susan Rice who persuaded an otherwise reluctant President Obama to 'lead from behind', just as it has been claimed by Seymour Hersh that the US was involved in the transfer of weapons seized from Qadhafi's arsenals to rebels in Syria, something in a classified memo that 17 months and $4.5m worth of Republican Party muck-raking has failed to expose (bearing Hersh's reputation in mind) --

    Under the terms of a secret agreement between the US and Turkey, partly funded by Saudi Arabia and Qatar, arms from Gaddafi’s arsenals were procured in Libya by retired US soldiers through Libyan front companies, with the operation overseen by the CIA and MI6. Normally, the CIA should have reported what it was doing to Congress, but an exception is made for liaison missions and “the involvement of MI6 enabled the CIA to evade the law by classifying the mission as a liaison mission”. Hersh cites a former intelligence officer as saying that the only purpose for the US to keep open a consulate in Benghazi “was to provide cover for the movement of arms”. After the murder of Mr Stevens, the CIA abruptly ended the operation which then came under Turkish control.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-a6707711.html

    The odd thing about the hearings is that the Committee sits high off the ground and makes it look like the members are hiding from the person they are questioning. It didn't help that the chairman -Trey Gowry (sounds like a species of duck native to Alaska) - looks like a shell-shocked marine cadet and that hour after hour nothing the Committee could come up with had any impact, other than the question someone asked of Mrs Clinton abut being alone at home when she burst into laughter, as did most of the rest of the world.

    $4.5m -cheaper than the film, but not as entertaining.




  9. #39
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    Default Re: Hillary Clinton: I Used to Love Her

    There was talk in the media a week before the hearings that the Republicans were using this to "POLITICAL" ends. In the end, it was Hillary who used the hearings for political ends. The Republicans on the panel were mostly former prosecutors, Hillary is a TV Star.
    Most of the Republicans running for President have decided that being on TV, and in the public eye is great for their careers, even if they lose. Politics has become more about Madison Ave instead of Pennsylvania Ave.
    My Sister met Bill and Hillary when they came to a bluegrass club she moonlighted at in the nineties. Bill worked the room with a beer in one hand, shaking hands with the other, talking to EVERYBODY. Hillary sat at the table with her drink, my sister said she had a COLD FISH aura goin' on. All her smiles and laughs are choreographed and phony, for the camera, but that's what it takes to be President, in her case. Nobody gets to be President by accident.
    For all her negatives, I think she very well could be a kick-ass President, maybe even great. Especially now that the tide of the economy has turned around. I sense that all those unforeseen invisible uncontrollable factors that occur during a Presidency might work in her favor, unlike a Bernie Sanders or even a Jimmy Carter. Enemies of the United States might think twice while a vindictive bitch like Hillary sits her ass in the oval office. Sean Hannity might have a stroke. While Putin has that tough stare, Hillary has that insane laugh. I hope that's for the cameras, I am not sure.
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  10. #40
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    Default Re: Hillary Clinton: I Used to Love Her

    If Mrs Clinton does get the nomination, and right now it looks that way because of her solid appearances in public debates and in Congress -in contrast to her opponents-, how will she present a different economic programme from that presented by Sanders?

    On the one hand there seems to be a shorthand shared by Democrats that elevates 'the Middle Class' above everyone else while taking pot shots at the 1% of super rich billionaires and hedge funds. On the other hand, Mrs Clinton does appear to have developed policy ideas which cover the wide range of issues and which have been laid out in the link in what I think is a fair assessment of her economic policy where it identifies three steps to increasing Middle Class income:

    The first step is to boost the economy. How? Give tax cuts to the middle class and small businesses, establish an infrastructure bank, and fund more scientific research. Also, help women enter the workforce by requiring businesses to pay for family leave and give sick days to all.

    The second step is to create fair growth. Clinton would raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour, increase workers' benefits, expand overtime, and encourage businesses to share profits with employees. She also wanted to invest in students and teachers, support unions and collective bargaining, strengthen the Affordable Care Act, expand job training, lower college and healthcare costs, and fight wage theft.(Source: "It's Time to Raise Incomes for Hard-Working Americans," Hillary Clinton 2016 LinkedIn page, July 13, 2015)

    The third step is to support long-term economic growth. Hillary would combat "quarterly capitalism" by raising short-term capital gains taxes for those earning $400,000 or more a year, the top 0.5% of taxpayers. Investments held between one and two years would be taxed at the maximum income-tax rate of 39.6%. Assets held for longer would be taxed on a sliding scale, such as 36% for those held 2-3 years, 32% for those held three to four years, and 20% (the current rate) for those held for six years or more.

    http://useconomy.about.com/od/fiscal...ry_Economy.htm

    In the web page linked above are policies she advocated when running against Obama in 2008 which in addition to presenting a plan for a balanced budget (something Obama did not) included-

    • Double the size of the enforcement unit in U.S. Trade Representative's Office to increase compliance with trade
    • Expand the Trade Adjustment Assistance agency to help workers displaced by outsourcing.

    Two measures that would be red flag to Republicans as both measures require an increase in Federal spending on an expanding bureaucracy.

    Some problems that arise from this-
    1) What is Mrs Clinton's position on 'free trade' given that she supported the Trans-Pacific Partnership but now opposes it; I don't know what her position is on the Trans-Atlantic Trade and Investment Partnership [TTIP] and it seems her own team are not comfortable with these issues, but she will have to deal with them at some point.
    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...ress-democrats

    The belief is that like her husband, Mrs Clinton is more congenial to 'corporate capitalism' than Mr Sanders, but is this a real problem once you get over the corporate interests and their powerful lobbying in Congress, their financial clout in super-PACS and the reluctance to pay taxes all of which can be dealt with by new laws? I would suggest millions of Americans who worked in the auto industry, the chemicals and communications industries and many more who live on their pension are relying on funds generated by pension funds on Wall St, and many pensioners support their younger families. Wall St is easy to knock, because it isn't going anywhere, but America is a capitalist country and Wall St fuels the machine. Be careful what you wish for?

    2. The Middle Class Matters. Of course it does, and nobody thinks otherwise because wages have stagnated and many traditional middle class jobs have disappeared. But what about the Working Class? Or the Unemployed? Has the Working Class simply disappeared in the way middle aged white men have been dying off at a faster rate than anyone else?
    http://www.theguardian.com/science/2...americans-aids

    Does anyone speak for the unemployed? I think there is a danger that this relentless appeal to Middle Class voters could make the Democrats a less broad-based party than it could be, so maybe it should try to be more inclusive. In the end the attacks in Paris will not make any difference to the Presidential campaign, where, as usual, the economy will be the dominant issue.



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