Why do some tgirls who are obviously way too masculine......

[GinX]

Some transgendered people will tell you that this is not a choice, that this is what they are and are compelled to transition.

BULLSHIT! We are all adults and responsible for our actions. If yr 6' 6" and built like a man with big hands and feet, you are going into a gun fight with a knife. You cannot blame it on destiny or the "woman within".

We make choices and must be accountable.

your friendly neighborhood fascist TS,
melissa Hitler

You might as well say that if you are a 6'6"man, weigh 260 pounds and are built like a brick outhouse, then you are obviously meant to be a heterosexual and anything else is just some "choice" you are making.

Newsflash: people who are gay, lesbian AND transgendered are what they are BECAUSE they are compelled to be. Outward physical traits mean nearly nothing when compared to a person's mental, emotional and inward genetic imperative.

Bullshit? I call bullshit on this post.

[GinX]

Some transgendered people will tell you that this is not a choice, that this is what they are and are compelled to transition.

BULLSHIT! We are all adults and responsible for our actions. If yr 6' 6" and built like a man with big hands and feet, you are going into a gun fight with a knife. You cannot blame it on destiny or the "woman within".

We make choices and must be accountable.

your friendly neighborhood fascist TS,
melissa Hitler

You might as well say that if you are a 6'6"man, weigh 260 pounds and are built like a brick outhouse, then you are obviously meant to be a heterosexual and anything else is just some "choice" you are making.

Newsflash: people who are gay, lesbian AND transgendered are what they are BECAUSE they are compelled to be. Outward physical traits mean nearly nothing when compared to a person's mental, emotional and inward genetic imperative.

Bullshit? I call bullshit on this post.

[GinX]

Sorry about the double post.

[Legend]

Melissa thinks she is the perfect example of a m2f transsexual and therefore can tell others if they should or should not transition or not.Newsflash she isn't in any kind of way and even if she were that doesn't give her a right to tell someone that they shouldn't follow their destiny.

[melissacarter]

You guys miss the point but then again this board is full of half-brained overly-opinionated individuals.

I never told anyone who should or shouldn't transition, I stated for the record that this is a choice, it is not our "destiny". Too many people claim they were born in the wrong body, that's nonsense. You were born in the body you were born in, and you chose to make changes. It's that simple.

Stop acting like fate had anything to do with it.

[jessica wabbit]

You sly fox you!

You knew that you was going to get an uproar of replies
didn't you?

I actually was waiting for someone to ask a question like this.

Now I can see all the different point of views.

this is great thanks!

[SarahG]

You guys miss the point but then again this board is full of half-brained overly-opinionated individuals.

I never told anyone who should or shouldn't transition, I stated for the record that this is a choice, it is not our "destiny". Too many people claim they were born in the wrong body, that's nonsense. You were born in the body you were born in, and you chose to make changes. It's that simple.

Stop acting like fate had anything to do with it.

When a subordinate has sex with a superior at work, it is unethical and can be legally taken to be discrimination or harassment even if the subordinate showed no signs of disliking the scenario, showed no signs of not wanting to go with it, or without being outright told by the superior their job required it.

Why is this? Because to the law, the subordinate has no way of knowing what the ramifications are for refusing to go along with it.

When someone is hungry they physically decide when and how and where to eat, people have been known to consciencely chose to starve to death (hunger strikes etc), but no law in western society is going to say eating is a choice.

The same logic applies to transitioning. Sure, there are some people who chose never to go on hrt (why? no idea myself) but it is a weak argument at best to say its all just a choice. I tend to think that the only reason why GID got into the psyc works like the DSM to begin with was because of the patients who seemingly kept trying to transition, as if a pathological compulsion.

However, I fully agree with you (if this is what you're saying) that whether it is a choice or not, destiny or not, the individual patient obviously has some extent of control in the path they take so to speak. Their decisions dictate (to a point) what happens, how it happens, when it happens.... if ever.

[peggygee]

You guys miss the point but then again this board is full of half-brained overly-opinionated individuals.

I never told anyone who should or shouldn't transition, I stated for the record that this is a choice, it is not our "destiny". Too many people claim they were born in the wrong body, that's nonsense. You were born in the body you were born in, and you chose to make changes. It's that simple.

Stop acting like fate had anything to do with it.

Melissa, I have read your responses and other people's upthread.

I do not feel that it was your intent to denigrate anyone, and I am
saddened by all the ad hominem attacks you were met with.

I believe that what you were espousing was the doctrine of free will
versus predetermination.

The question of free will is whether, and in what sense, rational agents
exercise control over their actions and decisions.

Having said that, I was on another forum, and the question was asked
"what would you do if you couldn't transition". Could you be content
to merely be a gay male.

The overwhelming majority of women stated that remaining in their birth
gender was not an option.

Many stated that they most likely would be dead if they had to stay in
their birth genders.

Thus I would concur with you that transitioning does indeed involve free
will, yet there are other elements that impact that decision.

[melissacarter]

I fully agree with you (if this is what you're saying) that whether it is a choice or not, destiny or not, the individual patient obviously has some extent of control in the path they take so to speak. Their decisions dictate (to a point) what happens, how it happens, when it happens.... if ever.

Well thank God someone on this board finally gets the message. Thank you Sarah. It's about taking responsibility and not hiding behind the argument that we have no conscious say in the matter. That society is to blame and not us for our predicament. What a load of crap.

Meanwhile, look deeper into this thread and you will see all the assholes who misread my comments and took them personally, then began their attacks.

[melissacarter]

You guys miss the point but then again this board is full of half-brained overly-opinionated individuals.

I never told anyone who should or shouldn't transition, I stated for the record that this is a choice, it is not our "destiny". Too many people claim they were born in the wrong body, that's nonsense. You were born in the body you were born in, and you chose to make changes. It's that simple.

Stop acting like fate had anything to do with it.

Melissa, I have read your responses and other people's upthread.

I do not feel that it was your intent to denigrate anyone, and I am
saddened by all the ad hominem attacks you were met with.

I believe that what you were espousing was the doctrine of free will
versus predetermination.

The question of free will is whether, and in what sense, rational agents
exercise control over their actions and decisions.

Having said that, I was on another forum, and the question was asked
"what would you do if you couldn't transition". Could you be content
to merely be a gay male.

The overwhelming majority of women stated that remaining in their birth
gender was not an option.

Many stated that they most likely would be dead if they had to stay in
their birth genders.

Thus I would concur with you that transitioning does indeed involve free
will, yet there are other elements that impact that decision.

Thanks Peg, for your support. The attacks might be hurtful if they a) had a point to make and b) understood the argument and then responded accordingly. Their own insecurities and rancor shine much brighter than any misguided point they tried to make. And yes, the subject is free will, thank you for seeing that.