Why do some tgirls who are obviously way too masculine......

[SF_Julie]

even attempt to transition? i think the only way a tranny can look good is if they have a small frame to begin with. i see these broad man-shouldered trannys who think they're gonna look good and pass as women when i can do nothing but smh. it's like they think because some small framed petite tranny can pass they can too. they're just deluding themselves. i wont name any names, but they just ain't passable and never will because they got a man's bone structure. Anybody else agree/ disagree?

Because we want to be ourselves, even if we are the ugliest women in town, but women nevertheless!

[Dinand]

Rupaul was 6'7 tall looks good to me

Rupaul doesn't count, he's a drag, not a tgirl.

[Dinand]

Lets face it, as long as guys see tgirls mostly in a sexual way the only thing that will matter is the fact if they're passable or not.

[blckhaze]

Lets face it, as long as guys see tgirls mostly in a sexual way the only thing that will matter is the fact if they're passable or not.

beg to differ. as long as they see them sexually, all theyll see is the cock. Passability matters more to the ladies than it does to most guys.

[silkencock]

even attempt to transition? i think the only way a tranny can look good is if they have a small frame to begin with. i see these broad man-shouldered trannys who think they're gonna look good and pass as women when i can do nothing but smh. it's like they think because some small framed petite tranny can pass they can too. they're just deluding themselves. i wont name any names, but they just ain't passable and never will because they got a man's bone structure. Anybody else agree/ disagree?

Luckily for me, along with the decision to transition, I also cultivated a profound and very usefull ability to NOT GIVE A FUCK what anyone else thinks about the why's & wherefore's of my transition. Seriously, who the fuck are you that I should take your opinion into account?

Some of the most beautiful gurls I have ever met are MTF, and thier beauty was not displayed so much in thier facial or body structure, but in thier courage to be who they are, and not what you or anyone else thinks they should be. They had tremendous beauty and strength in character , and that radiated from thier linebacker shoulders to thier hipless hips and thier big ass feet.

Live and let live. Or choke on it, I don't care which.

[SarahG]

even attempt to transition? i think the only way a tranny can look good is if they have a small frame to begin with. i see these broad man-shouldered trannys who think they're gonna look good and pass as women when i can do nothing but smh. it's like they think because some small framed petite tranny can pass they can too. they're just deluding themselves. i wont name any names, but they just ain't passable and never will because they got a man's bone structure. Anybody else agree/ disagree?

Luckily for me, along with the decision to transition, I also cultivated a profound and very usefull ability to NOT GIVE A FUCK what anyone else thinks about the why's & wherefore's of my transition. Seriously, who the fuck are you that I should take your opinion into account?

Some of the most beautiful gurls I have ever met are MTF, and thier beauty was not displayed so much in thier facial or body structure, but in thier courage to be who they are, and not what you or anyone else thinks they should be. They had tremendous beauty and strength in character , and that radiated from thier linebacker shoulders to thier hipless hips and thier big ass feet.

Live and let live. Or choke on it, I don't care which.

IDK, I am pretty on the fence here as I can see a very convincing argument for passing since we DO live in a world where people's views & opinions make a difference.

Job, housing, adoption discrimination in most countries is perfectly legal when dealing with trans citizens. In most states in the US an employer could flat out tell you they're firing you because "they think you're a freak" and you won't have shit for recourse.

But with discrimination protections that pretty much happens anyway, they just have to be more polite about it on the surface. There is ample evidence out there that, despite 30+ yrs of reforms, GGs still aren't paid equally in American employment, even if it is illegal, and if they can sue over discriminatory practices.

The way this relates is if you pass you're less likely to become a target of such bigotry.... since it is pretty clear you can't rely on discrimination law that doesn't exist, and you can't rely on it when it does it exist.

To play devil's advocate against myself: if only the girls that can't pass are out, it is going to proliferate the stereotypes that "all tgirls look like nhl players in dresses." Perception makes a huge difference in the general public, and if all they ever see are the "deviant" stereotypes, then its gonna be hard to get public acceptance. How many pride parades have gotten publicity, not because of the "normal" people who are like everyone else in society in the day to day lives, but because of fist fights, and exhibitionism?

I know in this one town my mom lived in briefly the only time the gay pride parade, the small unorganized one that was there, got into the local news there- was the one year a couple of the lumberjack lesbians got in a fist fight with the christian fundies there to protest. So what could have been an proactive approach to educate the general public was, in practice, a spectacle perpetuating flawed, skewed stereotypes.... and we wonder why reform is so hard to get in this country. How can we be taken seriously, in terms of health care, marriage law, and other issues if so much of the publicity is this type of bad publicity?

We're the minority of the population, if we keep distancing the general public with a "we don't give a fuck what you think" attitude,* all it is going to do is convince them we're freaks that shouldn't get the things we ask for.



*Or worse, a violent, militant attitude. Anyone remember the thread about the fight that broke out in a McDonalds roughly 6-9 months ago?

[absolutecarla]

I don't want to be passable for the public. I wanna be passable for myself. I want to have have bigger hips, I want pointy chin, I want smooth skin, I want breasts and I acted on it. I took hormones when I was 15. I saved all my penny from my highschool allowance and I did that because I want to look at the mirror and like what I see. I like it when clothes drape on my body. I like the curves that I see. It's hard to explain but I feel a sense of fulfillment when I see myself on the mirror. I like how I could just to to the female restroom without anyone clocking me. I feel free!! I also don't believe in such thing as a standard height, weight and feet size. I think it's a matter of proportion. Women in general have wider hips than men and is proportional to the shoulders.

[Periscope]

Hi all, first post.

I have to agree with the original poster somewhat, and with Melissa. I especially agree with Melissa on the question of choice. If you go look up autogynophelia you will find what I am 100% sure I identify with. If you agree with the information out there on the subject (and can believe what you read on the internet), many people who have transitioned can identify with that to varying degrees.

I don't feel like a "woman in a man's body". That is supposed to be how transgendered MTFs feel, but I don't. I don't feel like I am a woman, just that I want to be a woman. Since I can't honestly say I feel like a woman, that is probably the main reason I've never seen a therapist about it. I've been pretty close to starting to transition, but never have even though I've felt like I wanted to for 10 years.

Since I went away to college (which is a great opportunity to start a transition) the primary reason I haven't started is that I have serious doubts that I would pass, long term. I have broad shoulders and big feet. The biggest thing is that I have a big head and rather masculine facial features. I actually had a friend in college who is transgendered and her results kinda convinced me that starting with very masculine features won't get me the results I want. She does not really pass, and she's way more petite than I could ever have hoped to be. But she also had that "I don't care what anybody thinks" attitude. She could take the negative attention. I couldn't.

I don't want to spend the rest of my life getting clocked every time I go out. I would only want to do it if I could have a "normal" life on the other side. A lot of people think they're being all heroic and badass to say that they don't care what other people think, but that isn't a realistic approach to life. I think to transition and not be passable would be giving up too much, so I haven't done it. One thing that is important to me is my career, I don't want to change it. I know a TS won't be accepted in my industry any time soon. Hell, its tough for GG's. Stealth would be the only option, and my body just doesn't seem like it can be made passable. My friend from college is a waitress with a math degree from Virginia Tech.

So, yeah. I think its not that unrealistic to think someone can choose to not transition. I have. I just hope I don't have a midlife crisis and transition at 45 years old and ruin a family (I don't have one yet). By then I'd never be able to pass.

[Thatiger23]

ok heres the thing if your not dating them then why the hell do you care? if the girl want to transition then thats her decision......not to mention there are ways to look more feminine......

[yodajazz]

...

The way this relates is if you pass you're less likely to become a target of such bigotry.... since it is pretty clear you can't rely on discrimination law that doesn't exist, and you can't rely on it when it does it exist.

To play devil's advocate against myself: if only the girls that can't pass are out, it is going to proliferate the stereotypes that "all tgirls look like nhl players in dresses." Perception makes a huge difference in the general public, and if all they ever see are the "deviant" stereotypes, then its gonna be hard to get public acceptance. How many pride parades have gotten publicity, not because of the "normal" people who are like everyone else in society in the day to day lives, but because of fist fights, and exhibitionism?

I know in this one town my mom lived in briefly the only time the gay pride parade, the small unorganized one that was there, got into the local news there- was the one year a couple of the lumberjack lesbians got in a fist fight with the christian fundies there to protest. So what could have been an proactive approach to educate the general public was, in practice, a spectacle perpetuating flawed, skewed stereotypes.... and we wonder why reform is so hard to get in this country. How can we be taken seriously, in terms of health care, marriage law, and other issues if so much of the publicity is this type of bad publicity?

We're the minority of the population, if we keep distancing the general public with a "we don't give a fuck what you think" attitude,* all it is going to do is convince them we're freaks that shouldn't get the things we ask for.



*Or worse, a violent, militant attitude. Anyone remember the thread about the fight that broke out in a McDonalds roughly 6-9 months ago?

You are right about the ‘bad publicity’ in my book. That’s part of the nature of media, especially television news to go for crime and sensationalism. But that’s why most groups of people have media advocacy persons, to put out positive publicity and seek forums like public radio, and talk shows, to portray themselves in a positive light. That is not always enough to counter the negative stream, but it does help some people to see a clearer pictures.

The trans community does have a problem in that some of the most successful members of the community do not help the cause as they blend in with the greater straight society. That is their choice for happiness. But that is why I admire those who are out, and seek to uplift the image of the trans community. I consider them to be very courageous.

Props to everyone who has posted in this thread. I think it is an important discussion.