Well guys...what are my options???

[Ecstatic]

Hush money! Now we've come quite a ways, lol. This is a delicate situation for some--probably for all to varying degrees. I've told various friends and family members that I have TS friends. I don't tell them I've had sex with TS; it's none of their biz. But the hardest part for most of my family and friends wouldn't be the fact that it was a TS, but that I had sex with someone other than the lovely woman I'm married to. I couldn't care less about that because hers is the only opinion that matters in that regard, and she's very supportive of me (has even met one of my TS friends socially, and they got on very well). So there's a distinction, for me, between being proud to be associated with TS (which I am) and being private about any sexual contact that may ensue with them.

But I can see that for some people (who work in an industry which, apparently, is quite closed minded in some ways, like Thuggish does), even association with TS or gays or escorts (let alone a combination of any of the above) would be very harsh for their careers, and caution is advised for them. I agree with True Beauty in principle, but I also see that that principle sometimes, in some circumstances, has to give way...or you have to choose a different career.

[Vicki Richter]

Oh the main thing also is that someday a famous somebody might be willing to date a TS publicly, but that TS won't be a porn star or escort. Have you noticed that celebrity even deny dating female pornstars? Even that is taboo. However, being seen with GG hookers really screws some of those guys.

That, I do agree with.

I still say that all of these excuses and arguments the guys give now were the same ones that all the gay men and women of the past have used.

We really don't KNOW if openly dating a T would destroy someone's career, because all the famous people that do, never take a stand and own up to it. It will happen, but it won't be overnight and there will be some casulties, but if people believe in something strong enough, anything is possible. Now the question is, which guys are strong enough to take the first steps? Or is all this just more BS?

How did you two meet?

"Oh I saw her in shemale road trip #xx and fell in love."

Better...

"Well I was dating her for a while off of the erosguide, and through that, I realized that she was the girl for me."

My guess is that it's already happened to some extent and nobody knows it. Kind of like a Tula situation before she was outted. Not all TS are stupid enough to get into the porn industry as you happen to know darlin'.

[Quinn]

TrueBeauty,

O.K., I'll bite. Respectuflly speaking, your assertion that "money trumps gender" is just plain wrong. At 33 years of age, I have extensive experience at the higher levels of both the domestic and international corporate arena, and have found that nothing could be further from the truth. Were you referring only to acting, singing, or some other artistically oriented business, I might agree with you in that specific instance. However, as a general rule, money definitely does not trump gender, gender identity, or sexual orientation. The higher up the money tree you go the older the money gets, and old money tends to be accompanied by narrow and antiquated social perspectives that limit such considerations. In fact, for people in that environment, being just straightforward gay is viewed as being far more acceptable than being transgendered.

As support of my assertion, I submit to you that very few transgendered people have achieved mid-level or high-level positions in the corporate world. Think about it. Why do so many TGs go into the adult entertainment industry or wind up working for themselves in some other field? It's not just because "the money is good;" it's often because of a lack of truly viable opportunities for advancement in the corporate environment.

In your post, you make references to your being sick of men who lack courage and who you view as being "scarred to death and hiding in the closet." Am I to infer from that statement that because I choose not to share this small part of my life (perhaps 1 in every 10 women with whom I choose to share intimacy is TG instead of GG) with those who invest in my company that I lack courage. Why must I or any other man loudly proclaim his occasional interest in TGs in order to satisfy your insecurity driven need to be validated? Why must I choose any label (gay, straight, bi, etc.) in order to satisfy the needs of anyone not comfortable with their own identity. I do what works for me and don't feel so insecure as to have to label or define any of it.

[suckseed]

It's all settled then Thuggish. Become a valet and take AS to the Vibe Awards. Anything else we can help you with?

[Vicki Richter]

I beg to differ on that. My sister interviewed two relatively high level management TS who work at a large company. Both were very well integrated. This is not an exception either. I have a male friend who has a senior non-management coworker who is a TS and he is also in a professional environment. Of course if you go up the chain to CEO or corporate offices, you won't see any, but I think there are many TS in mid-level positions.

I would argue that the main stigma is against the sex worker TS, or the ones that are on Springer and that social stigma would be for anyone (male, female, or TS) who are sex workers and go on Springer type shows. People come here and think this entire site is the norm for who and what transsexual people are and I'm sorry but it's not. This is a sex site. This site represents the seedy underbelly of transsexualism, myself included.

V

[Ecstatic]

Vicki, your underbelly doesn't look at all seedy to me!

I wonder: I know lots of guys have this misconception that a site like this represents the TS norm (though we try and debunk that myth), but I wonder how many TS have that same perception? I mean, is it only the lure of the fast buck which pulls young TS to escorting and modeling, or is it because that's what they are also exposed to and think is the norm?

[Quinn]

Vicki,

I speak on the employability of the transgendered based mostly upon the experiences of the TGs that I have dated or simply had friendships with here in NYC, New Jersey, and Paris. Those seeking corporate opportunities beyond the lower level have often complained of being hard pressed to find them -- regardless of their level of education.

Speaking from my own business experience, the only place I have seen TGs remotely well integrated into the business culture is in California, particularly LA and San Fran -- and then generally at lower level positions. Outside of California, I haven't seen it. Here in NYC, it doesn't seem to happen unless it is in an artistic endeavor. I've never encountered one at any Wall Street firm I've worked with, which always seemed a bit odd considering how many TGs there are here in NYC. Even the advertising agencies I have worked with, which are about as gay friendly as any industry could be, don't seem to employ any in positions of importance. In Europe, where I have done most of my foreign business and found both women's and gay rights to lag behind the U.S. with reference to corporate matters, opportunities seem even more sparse.

I'm sure shows like Jerry Springer don't work to help this and probably lead to the stigmatization of all TGs.

[TrueBeauty TS]

TrueBeauty,

O.K., I'll bite. Respectuflly speaking, your assertion that "money trumps gender" is just plain wrong. At 33 years of age, I have extensive experience at the higher levels of both the domestic and international corporate arena, and have found that nothing could be further from the truth. Were you referring only to acting, singing, or some other artistically oriented business, I might agree with you in that specific instance. However, as a general rule, money definitely does not trump gender, gender identity, or sexual orientation. The higher up the money tree you go the older the money gets, and old money tends to be accompanied by narrow and antiquated social perspectives that limit such considerations. In fact, for people in that environment, being just straightforward gay is viewed as being far more acceptable than being transgendered.

As support of my assertion, I submit to you that very few transgendered people have achieved mid-level or high-level positions in the corporate world. Think about it. Why do so many TGs go into the adult entertainment industry or wind up working for themselves in some other field? It's not just because "the money is good;" it's often because of a lack of truly viable opportunities for advancement in the corporate environment.

In your post, you make references to your being sick of men who lack courage and who you view as being "scarred to death and hiding in the closet." Am I to infer from that statement that because I choose not to share this small part of my life (perhaps 1 in every 10 women with whom I choose to share intimacy is TG instead of GG) with those who invest in my company that I lack courage. Why must I or any other man loudly proclaim his occasional interest in TGs in order to satisfy your insecurity driven need to be validated? Why must I choose any label (gay, straight, bi, etc.) in order to satisfy the needs of anyone not comfortable with their own identity. I do what works for me and don't feel so insecure as to have to label or define any of it.

Quinn,

Thanks for your well thought out post. I will concede that I was infact probably thinking more along the lines of the entertainment industy. I am not well versed in the old, corporate, finacial institutions. What you say may be true.

However, I think that the people that use porn, go to porn web sites, and see escorts, and visit escort sites DO get a skewed view of transsexualism. There are, and have been some very succsesful TS's in all industries, especially the computer and engineering fields. The reason it seems a lot of TS girls are into porn and other sex work is because of several things.

1. I think it's mostly the money. What other job can command 200-400 an hour?

2. Girls can now starting transition earlier, and to pay for their transistions, sex work is the quickest, most profitable way.

3. Since girls are transistioning earlier, a lot of them skip going to college or even finishing HS. Sex work is easy, big money. (This lack of education will come back to haunt them later, although they don't know it right now because of the high life they are living.)

4. Validation. Getting lots of money because of your beauty is certainly an ego booster.


All that being said, there are thousands of TS people that you will never know about because they live "normal" lives. I personally know some TS's that work in the banking, teaching, computer, news, and aviation industies and even on wall street. Do I know any TS CEO's? No, not yet, but then how many people attain that rank? And when you factor in the low % of TS's versus the normal population, it's not too surprising.

In your post, you make references to your being sick of men who lack courage and who you view as being "scarred to death and hiding in the closet." Am I to infer from that statement that because I choose not to share this small part of my life (perhaps 1 in every 10 women with whom I choose to share intimacy is TG instead of GG) with those who invest in my company that I lack courage. Why must I or any other man loudly proclaim his occasional interest in TGs in order to satisfy your insecurity driven need to be validated? Why must I choose any label (gay, straight, bi, etc.) in order to satisfy the needs of anyone not comfortable with their own identity. I do what works for me and don't feel so insecure as to have to label or define any of it.

First of all, we all have labels even if we don't want them. Even you. You cherish and use the "straight" label because you feel it helps you in your career and possibly, fits you the best.

Secondly, when did I ever say anyone should LOUDLY go around telling everyone they meet that they date TS's??? Personally, I think that should be private. But if you were to fall in love with a TS girl, and then choose NOT to be with her because YOU are afraid someone MIGHT find out, then yes, I would call that cowardly. Wouldn't you?

[Quinn]

True,

Interesting post; definitely a great read. You mention being in love with a TS and the decisions that this might require. I categorically agree that if love were involved, I or any man choosing to walk away from it do to the likelihood of external pressure would definitely be a coward. Love must always come fist, no matter what.

On the whole employability thing, let me first add clarity to what I consider mid-level or high-level corporate positions, which I referenced in my earlier post to you. I regard anything entailing a Director's title and at least 120K a year as mid-level management, while anything above is obviously high-level. It seems to me that at that level there is definitely a preponderance of white males (me, etc.), with everyone else generally being underrepresented -- though this is changing. At this level there are still many forms of subtle discrimination (gender, race, age, sexual orientation, etc.) that end the advancement of many good and qualified manger's careers.

If you look at new business statistics, you will find something very interesting. There are currently a number of African American, Hispanic, and gay owned business being started that dramatically overrepresented those people as a statistical percentage of the U.S. population. Most experts state that this is because these groups feel that they have better opportunities doing for themselves than relying upon the capricious and often biased tastes of pre-existing corporate structures. Many of the TGs that I know voice similar thoughts. Those that I personally know that are successful outside of the sex industry are successful because they started their own businesses.

Don't know if this adds any clarity to my position, but any enlightening responses are certainly welcomed and appreciated.

[Ecstatic]

1. I think it's mostly the money. What other job can command 200-400 an hour?

Lawyer, surgeon, Fortune 500 CEO, top level politician....yep, taking that much scratch for an "hour's" work is pretty easy pay. But that also comes back around to the question of why so many girls waste that income (though fortunately not all by any means).