Disgusted

[lust4ts]

And lust you know I love you, you know I do.

But you are a hyprocrite, for the things you yourself said about Mimi in the chatrooms.

That is all.

I love you too Kel.

My point is not whether it is offensive or not.

I am saying that if it is seen as offensive, it makes no difference who is saying it.

The meaning is the same "You are a man, you are not a girl" despite who says it.

Saying that a girl has more right to say it is crazy and makes no sense at all.

It isn't crazy. A genetic girl calling another girl a cunt or bitch is accepted much easier than a man doing it.

No. You do not have any more right to walk up to a girl in the street and call her a bitch or cunt than I do Kelly! Despite the gender thing.

In your opinion dear, but trust me it's a world of difference.

There may be a difference or the stigma attatched to it, but the rights are the same, and that has been my point all along.

You have no or less or more right to that use of terminology than me.

Being a Transsexual doesn't give you the right to do someting that judge as being wrong at another time, despite whether it is done to another Transsexual.

[lust4ts]

Sweetie, since it is the way that it is, not the way you want it to be, don't tell me its wrong LOL. And since I understand it is why it is the way it is, and you don't , don't tell me I am the one who is confused. LOL

A Jewish person can tell all the Rabbi jokes he likes and not be anti-semitic. An African American can use the N word in ways no white person even can or should. And a tranny can call another tranny a man and get away with it when a tranny admirer cannot.

I'm not saying you can't use the terms, you can. but the repercussions are different if you call Kelly a man, than if I do. To try to explain it, again, in terms you will get, under your proposed rule, its a simple rule, and it applies to everyone, no one can ever call anyone a man. But if you call Kelly a man, its an insult, If she calls you one, its not. if she calls me one, its an insult but not as serious of one because she is the pot and I am the kettle. And you aren't even on the stove.

FK

The repercussions are subjective and rules based around terminology can not be subjective if they are going to make any sense at all.

You are comparing yourself to a Race or religion, but frankly you are neither.

The rights are the same. It is wrong and offensive either way, black and white, plain and simple.

[Night Rider]

rofl I had no issue with Mimi till she started calling the men actually I liked fags, thats when I started to dislike her. Then when she started going off the mouth about Brenda, I have always liked Brenda. So again it didn't suit me any.

what are you rofl about?

You're dodging the question - why not confront Vanessa or Nicole?

Is it a sister thing?

I don't think I saw when that occured. I was just in the mimi thread and when I made my thread about the college she went to vanessa and mimi and nicole were respectful in the thread I made to Brenda.

[vegasboy]

Vegas, whats most important to me isn't sympathy or empathy but the antipathy I have to all the really harsh. hateful ad hominen horseshit that has dominated the board lately. Maybe its a chicken/egg situation, but I see more from the many towards the few, ie from the guys, to the girls, and it being more of an action by them and a reaction by us. Or an action by us and an overreaction by the men. I have had way more immature insults and invective directed towards me than anything I have said ever could have warranted. I'm just too old and jaded to respond in the way those comments might have deserved, and though it may sound trite and self righteous, I really do try to treat others the way I would like to be treated. and to turn the other cheek when I'm not.

FK

As to this last point. This makes you a better person than I, or at least a more emotionally mature person. I don't like the invective towards the women. Quite frankly I'm involved with flame threads usually because they're there, and because I see things I disagree with.

But you're right. The women who come here to express a view, interact with their many fans, and even have a little bit of banter don't deserve to ever be degraded. You know what I'm saying. Some don't follow your model...just like some guys say things I find abhorrent. But as far as you're concerned, I say this with full anticipation that it can be used against me. If you were scared away by invective, it would be a far greater loss than my being banned. But of course, my being banned wouldn't end the invective. In fact, I've never hurled invective at a polite woman like yourself.

P.S in that crazy thread last night some girl tried to tell me that the word "fag" was in the American vernacular where fag actually means loser. No matter who says it, such nonsense should be countered, and as you say preferably with reasoned discourse.

[lust4ts]

That is ridiculous, you are deluded, you think that being a Transsexual gives you special rights here and that is why you are talking shit.

By any logic, despite gender or status, if one person is allowed to call a girl a man, then so is another, that is a FACT!

What makes you think you have enough common sense to know when to mind your own business? Do you think that your every thought is worth typing? I have no special rights, trust me. But that's like saying that you would have anything to contribute to a cat fight back stage at a drag show. Or that you should be able to step into a street argument in Washington Heights, NY, and that your opinion is valid or wanted. You don't have your shit together enough to go to a bar and pick up a TS, and you want to claim a right to play referee between Jen and Mimi? Get real.

Once again trying to be smart and avoiding the question, it is a fair question, why can't you answer it. What is the difference?

How can an insult or word have a different meaning because it implied by someone of a different gender, that is nonsensical and unfair.

How come I didn’t see you in the Mimi thread, disagreeing with what they were saying, and that is my point?

WHICH Mimi thread?! You act as if I pay as close attention to this forum as you do. In fact, I spoke to someone yesterday who told me about a lengthy and popular thread that I have NEVER even opened due to lack of interest. Sweetheart, I barely give a shit about the ones I do read and post on.

Anyway, you want basic realities, acquired wisdom, and good ol' common sense all painstakingly explained for your convenience, but then you let Felicia's poignant post go in one ear and out the other. That says to me that you're here to argue and get attention. Well I'm not spoon-feeding you those things. This is why IRL you have nothing to do with transsexuals. You live in a myopic cyber reality, and need to get out.

Grow pair, go to one of those clubs in London, and pick up a Tgirl. Get off this forum for a few hours, and check out the REAL thing. Don't worry about double standards when you don't even have anything to compare it to in your life.

There are lots of little boys here playing grown up, regardless of how old you are in years.

Only someone as low as you would bring a conversation we had in the chatroom out here, that is a scum bag thing to do. I explained to you and have said it many times before, I have no real desire to be with a TS, it's not something I need to do, if it happens it happens. It's so stupid, you are either like me and dont give a shit ift if the girl you like is a TS or GG or a chaser you can't win nicole. That is why you talk shit.

I thought you were better than that, this is seperate discussion, we had that chat weeks ago and you bring that shit here, real classy.

[vegasboy]

Sweetie, since it is the way that it is, not the way you want it to be, don't tell me its wrong LOL. And since I understand it is why it is the way it is, and you don't , don't tell me I am the one who is confused. LOL

A Jewish person can tell all the Rabbi jokes he likes and not be anti-semitic. An African American can use the N word in ways no white person even can or should. And a tranny can call another tranny a man and get away with it when a tranny admirer cannot.

I'm not saying you can't use the terms, you can. but the repercussions are different if you call Kelly a man, than if I do. To try to explain it, again, in terms you will get, under your proposed rule, its a simple rule, and it applies to everyone, no one can ever call anyone a man. But if you call Kelly a man, its an insult, If she calls you one, its not. if she calls me one, its an insult but not as serious of one because she is the pot and I am the kettle. And you aren't even on the stove.

FK

That's right. I agree completely. If someone makes a comment directed at a group they don't belong to, it is far worse than if the comment comes from within the group. That doesn't mean Muhammad Ali wasn't wrong when he called Joe Frazier a "gorilla". It just means that it wasn't as bad as if a caucasian had said it. And there are myriad reasons for this.

That said, despite the insults not being equivalent, I still think tg's shouldn't call each other men. You can't say it's polite in an absolute sense.

[lust4ts]

The repercussions are subjective and rules based around terminology can not be subjective if they are going to make any sense at all.

You are comparing yourself to a Race or religion, but frankly you are neither.

The rights are the same. It is wrong and offensive either way, black and white, plain and simple.

Sweetheart, you don't know what we are. You can't even muster up the confidence to go to a TS bar. I think you should post less until you do.

See this is your augument now, off topic and bullshit. I told you I don't want to go to a TS bar because I don't give a shit about being with a TS.

I respect them as women and nothing else so why would I go to a bar to meet them dumb ass?

You are fucking low, I really thought you had some class. Damn that is a pussy thing to do.

[lust4ts]

Only someone as low as you would bring a conversation we had in the chatroom out here, that is a scum bag thing to do. I explained to you and have said it many times before, I have no real desire to be with a TS, it's not something I need to do, if it happens it happens. It's so stupid, you are either like me and dont give a shit ift if the girl you like is a TS or GG or a chaser you can't win nicole. That is why you talk shit.

I thought you were better than that, this is seperate discussion, we had that chat weeks ago and you bring that shit here, real classy.

You're kidding, right? You want me to keep a conversation we had in a public chat room confidential? But ok, here come the names, like scumbag, and an evaluation of my "class". So I'll let you get back to your special little world. You can't face the one almost everyone else here lives in. I can see exactly what I'm dealing with.

I am not a chaser Nicole, where is the shame in that?

If I meet a TS, it will be like any other relationship I am not going to leech around gay bars in london to meet one.

I could throw what you do for a living at you, but I won't, whatever you have said, I did respect you, but only a shitty person would need to do that in a completely seperate debate, and you know it.

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

I'm disgusted by Eli Manning

it has nothing to do with this thread, but I feel better making it known

[Felicia Katt]

Sweetie, you are a good person, but a poor listener in this area. All terminology is subjective, and depends on the persons involved. Race and Religion are analogies, they illustrate the point. Its not offensve at all for a rabbi to say the the difference between a Jew and a canoe is that the canoe tips. (I know this since I heard this joke at a Jewish wedding from a rabbi) He said it and it was funny, if I had said it as part of a wedding toast, as a non-jew it would have been offensive. Same words, same context, but different outcome

Since you can't or won't relate gender to race or relgion, despite their relative and relevant similarities, consider this. I can call any of my gay friends a faggot, or a queer or Mary and get a hug back. If I call anyone here that, I expect a headlock, not a hug. Same words, similar context, but different outcomes. My gay friends would have a different reaction to those same words if they were said by someone holding a baseball bat in car cruising slowly past them on the streets of West Hollywood. Same words, but not the same outcome. Its a term of endearment in one context, a slight in another, and a hate crime in yet another.

Not black, not white, not plain, not simple. Its all subjective but understandable all the same. There are some things you will get away with that other's won''t. And some you won't that others will.

FK