In 34 years no man ever wanted my penis.

[tstv_lover]

I'm not sure that things have changed so much. I've always been interested in a tgirls dick. In my limited experience, it not part of the anatomy they particularly want to show off and, in some instances, it's an area they wish wasn't there. I can't imagine being the bottom in a sexual relationship with a TS but it's obvious from HA posts that many guys do - which is fine.

30 years ago there were comparatively few guys openly gay. Now there are many more. Does that mean there are more gay guys now or just more being open about it?

Maybe it's the same with guys who are attracted to transsexuals. Perhaps the numbers haven't increased - just the openness.

Stereotyping is so dangerous in this area, but it seems that the majority of tgirls prefer to bottom although some will top if that's what their partner (or customer) wants. It's so dangerous to use labels...

Now I'll await all the posts from people who completely disagree with me

[mbf]

it all comes down to accepting youself as a ts and not as someone wanting to be a woman

Excuse me?

People keep trying to put me in the boxes they like. My parents wanted me to be a man. You want me to be a third-gender. What about my opinion? What about my experience? What about my life?

You don't know what it's like to be born this way and you don't know what it's like to be me. You can never understand, you just judge.

This goes for all the guys out there like the ones who whine every time a TS gets her wings... err pussy.

reality check anyone? beeing put in boxes is how the world works. If you don´t pass as a "woman" in every day life and in a straight environment, say hi to the "freak"-signature.

You can surgically alter your body, and/or take hormones, but you will never be a natural born woman. Bear a child? Pelvic bones?

Wishful thinking doesn´t change the reality.

[mischelle]

"freak"-signature...... not sure what to think of that but I don't think you meant anything evil. Well I hope not anyways.

You are right though " You can surgically alter your body, and/or take hormones, but you will never be a natural born woman" and you are also right about" Wishful thinking doesn´t change the reality."

Of course I cannot be a natural born woman, I was born a male, as I grew and became older and more self aware, I realized I didn't identify as a male. My point is I don't and I don't know any other girl who just does "wishful thinking" I know you probably meant "wishful thinking" like wishing I was a gg, and not as an insult.

I do agree with Zoe 100% though. "People keep trying to put me in the boxes they like. My parents wanted me to be a man. You want me to be a third-gender. What about my opinion? What about my experience? What about my life?

You don't know what it's like to be born this way and you don't know what it's like to be me. You can never understand, you just judge.

This goes for all the guys out there like the ones who whine every time a TS gets her wings... err pussy."

I just have the attitude that nobody is going to tell me who I am, or how I should live. So I disagree with you saying "beeing put in boxes is how the world works." Since it's my life that I have to live, and I pay for my transition with my own fiancees, I don't really care what society thinks.

[tgirlzoe]

it all comes down to accepting youself as a ts and not as someone wanting to be a woman

Excuse me?

People keep trying to put me in the boxes they like.

reality check anyone? beeing put in boxes is how the world works. If you don´t pass as a "woman" in every day life and in a straight environment, say hi to the "freak"-signature.

You can surgically alter your body, and/or take hormones, but you will never be a natural born woman. Bear a child? Pelvic bones?

Wishful thinking doesn´t change the reality.

First off, I said "the boxes they want". You want me to resign myself to being a third gender instead of a woman. I can only suppose that it's to accept my cock as permanent.

Here's a thought, rewind before I ever heard the word "transsexual" and ask my 8 year old self what I am. I would say, "girl". I wouldn't say, "I want to grow up to be a shemale porn star and fuck guys in the ass for money!" I thought being a girl wasn't that hard, I thought people would listen. Then I found out that while I had a penis, people would always consider me a boy. I was angry at God for making me a girl inn every way but what was between my legs. Every night, I cried myself to sleep, praying to wake up a normal girl. I came out as gay because that was the only word I knew. Finally, when I was 16, after two failed suicide attempts, I discovered there is a name for this and I met other people like me online and soon in real life. I found out about hormones and SRS and I was excited that I was going to finally be normal. Fast forward another six years and here I am, still half and half. But I have been able to try to live as normal as I can.

Even after SRS, I will still not be fully normal. You're right, I won't be able to bear my own children. You're right, plastic surgery can't make make my hips not suck. I will continue to be narrow-hipped, like my GG roommate...

Here's where you are wrong: I don't want to be a woman.

I am a woman.

[mbf]

First off, I said "the boxes they want". You want me to resign myself to being a third gender instead of a woman. I can only suppose that it's to accept my cock as permanent.

yeah, right. I don´t care whatever you do. YOU put me in boxes actually. Face it, you love prejudice like anybody else. YOU are the one obsessed with genitalia, not me.

Not every guy on here is a cockhound, ever thought about that?

I knew a few trannies personally, face to face actually, and no matter if they were mainly in the activist/self-help group or in the escort/adult entertainment camp, I have encountered a great deal of delusion the last couple of years.

Yes, truth stings....

[tgirlzoe]

First off, I said "the boxes they want". You want me to resign myself to being a third gender instead of a woman. I can only suppose that it's to accept my cock as permanent.

yeah, right. I don´t care whatever you do. YOU put me in boxes actually. Face it, you love prejudice like anybody else. YOU are the one obsessed with genitalia, not me.

Not every guy on here is a cockhound, ever thought about that?

I knew a few trannies personally, face to face actually, and no matter if they were mainly in the activist/self-help group or in the escort/adult entertainment camp, I have encountered a great deal of delusion the last couple of years.

Yes, truth stings....

helmetvonzeplin was talking about genitalia. That was his point. Keep and use your cock and you are "psychologically healthy", doesn't anyone consider the fact that we are being rational? Just because guys would die if they lost their cocks but we are willing to sacrifice it on the altar of social acceptance.

I put off transitioning for three years because of my parents' reaction and threats. I went from effemInate and openly gay to full of teenage angst and was very Queer, flaming and androgynous and everyone knew who I was throughout the high school. You know how sometimes straight folk say, "I don't mind gay people as long as they don't shove it down my throat."? Well, I shoved it down everyone's throat. After all the straight world shoves its agenda down my throat.

I wasn't very happy with this situation. If my parents had let me transition at any point, I would have gladly done it and turned out closer to their ideal anyway. But instead I was backed into a corner.

I knew my life was not sustainable. Femmy gay boys quickly lose their appeal with age and I would become yet another aging bar fly ala Buddy Cole. I wanted access to areas of heterosexual privilege. I've really always wanted a straight life. I largely have it now ~ I've lived in the women's dorms unquestioned, I've made out with plenty of straight boys (without telling), I've dated straight men including that ideal of a man I "turned". I am active in my church community, which is primarily straight, white, middle-class, older folk. I have so much straight privilege now, sometimes I've been left feeling like a sell-out. Although I will still defend gay rights and equality in secular society and the church, to most people I am just a young straight woman. I am happy being normal.

SRS will just serve to cement this. If it were possible, I'd marry a man without telling him, but these days it's far too easy to get outed. But I still believe I can have any man I put my mind to. I live in a relatively small town, I have no easy way of finding "chasers" so of course the guys I date are straight and normal. When I tell them I'm TS they either run away or not. I don't think this new guy will...

Sure, you can put labels on me, people do it to each other all the time. But "woman" is not in conflict with "transsexual".

[mbf]

helmetvonzeplin was talking about genitalia. That was his point.

yes, and you were blatantly sugesting I am of the same opinion. Dead wrong.

I've dated straight men including that ideal of a man I "turned". I am active in my church community, which is primarily straight, white, middle-class, older folk. I have so much straight privilege now, sometimes I've been left feeling like a sell-out. Although I will still defend gay rights and equality in secular society and the church, to most people I am just a young straight woman. I am happy being normal.

SRS will just serve to cement this. If it were possible, I'd marry a man without telling him, but these days it's far too easy to get outed. But I still believe I can have any man I put my mind to. I live in a relatively small town, I have no easy way of finding "chasers" so of course the guys I date are straight and normal. When I tell them I'm TS they either run away or not. I don't think this new guy will...

Good example. The straight man "I turned".

You know, today EVERYONE knows at least trannies exist. So, if you "turn" a "straight" guy, he is at least "curious". Of course, this notion would get into the way you love to perceive your world so you will neglect it....

[tgirlzoe]

helmetvonzeplin was talking about genitalia. That was his point.

yes, and you were blatantly sugesting I am of the same opinion. Dead wrong.

Yet that's not what you said. You reminded us that we are not the same as female-born women, as though we needed a reminder. You said the TS you have met have were "deluded". Is SRS just further playing into the "delusion", the lie, that we are women? What is the biggest mark of a transsexual? Not h height, her shoe size, but her penis. Without that, we are women in society.

Our society doesn't have a third gender. Even still, I think many transsexuals would refuse it. I was in a conversation a couple years ago with a 17yo trans guy and a queer woman. He said that he would not identify himself on a survey as an "FTM" as distinct from "male"/"man" if the option were presented. I agreed with him. This threw a wrench into the girl's "look at the diversity of genders" plan. I've met other guys like that, guys who refer to themselves as "transmen" or "FTM", and female-bodied genderqueer kids. MTFs are similar, but perhaps less diverse. Most trans people at my university are FTM.

I can't see being a wife and mother and still having a penis or explaining to my daughter that Mommy isn't a boy or a girl. We may be marginalized in society but that doesn't mean we need to accept that. Many of us transitioned in our teens and now we're seeing examples of transsexuals being allowed to live normally at very young ages. It's akin to the shift from smacking left-handed kids to working with them. You want to give these kids as much respect as anyone else and not stigmatize them. Would you remind the trans/intersexed kid that they are "freaks" and "deluded" if they think they are like "natural born women" ~ after all, they can't bear children and that's what gives a woman value and identity. Transsexuals are very devalued in society. Why do you think so many transkids attempt or commit suicide?

I've dated straight men including that ideal of a man I "turned".

Good example. The straight man "I turned".

You know, today EVERYONE knows at least trannies exist. So, if you "turn" a "straight" guy, he is at least "curious". Of course, this notion would get into the way you love to perceive your world so you will neglect it....[/quote]

Maybe he was curious. He denied it, saying that he wasn't bi-curious at all (he didn't really like men at all and had a tendency to get in fights with them, most of his friends were girls) and had never looked at tranny porn (although I did get him to watch one of Gia's movies with me to try to get him to see that part of me as sexy). I met him at school, he was a bit older than most people (26, I was 21), lonely and depressed. I sympathised with him and we grew emotionally close. He told me that he liked me, I had to tell him about my past and the fact that I have a penis. At this point most guys freak out and run away. But he didn't.

He was very awkward at first. I was more comfortable with my penis than he was. He went from not wanting me to get naked to actually stroking me off, though it took a few times. He lamented that I wasn't a normal girl because he loved me but we eventually broke up because he said he needed a girl he could make babies with. He said if I was post-op and I didn't tell him about my past, it would have gone on much longer. If I or a sterile GG married him without telling, he wouldn't divorce them and would accept adoption as a possibility.

I have no doubt he was telling the truth, we were always very open, honest and intimate. Maybe now he secretly has desires for tranny cock but I doubt it. He woulld have much rather have me in the body of a GG and so would I.

[mbf]

You reminded us that we are not the same as female-born women, as though we needed a reminder. You said the TS you have met have were "deluded". Is SRS just further playing into the "delusion", the lie, that we are women? What is the biggest mark of a transsexual? Not h height, her shoe size, but her penis. Without that, we are women in society.

Would you remind the trans/intersexed kid that they are "freaks" and "deluded" if they think they are like "natural born women" ~ after all, they can't bear children and that's what gives a woman value and identity.

yes, because I think some of you need to be reminded. Feel free to add my to your shitlist, but I ´ve been dealing with that kind of stuff for too long to let it slip uncommented.

You just can´t have it all, and that´s what is the delusional part, but carry on....

And don´t put words in my mouth that aren´t there, because I clearly never called anybody a "freak", that´s just the reaction of someone who *thinks* she is woman enough to pull the stunt in everyday life, but just can´t. I am not the one to point a finger at this person, but it happens and you know it.

As to the parts about your current BF. Saying is one thing, believeing it another.... I rest my case cuz it´s obviously a lost cause, pipi longstockings

[peggygee]

it all comes down to accepting youself as a ts and not as someone wanting to be a woman

Excuse me?

People keep trying to put me in the boxes they like. My parents wanted me to be a man. You want me to be a third-gender. What about my opinion? What about my experience? What about my life?

You don't know what it's like to be born this way and you don't know what it's like to be me. You can never understand, you just judge.

This goes for all the guys out there like the ones who whine every time a TS gets her wings... err pussy.

You just can´t have it all, and that´s what is the delusional part, but carry on....

I wanted access to areas of heterosexual privilege. I've really always wanted a straight life. I largely have it now ~ I've lived in the women's dorms unquestioned, I've made out with plenty of straight boys (without telling), I've dated straight men including that ideal of a man I "turned". I am active in my church community, which is primarily straight, white, middle-class, older folk. I have so much straight privilege now, sometimes I've been left feeling like a sell-out. Although I will still defend gay rights and equality in secular society and the church, to most people I am just a young straight woman. I am happy being normal.

Zoe and Mischelle have stated the case quite well, we as transwomen can
indeed be the captains of our own ships, and Mistresses of our destiny.

Many, many of us are able to assimilate into mainstream society.

We are employed in every segment of society, be it white, pink, blue, or
grey collar.

We all are not the shemale fetish objects that so many on this forum lust after.

There is more than one criteria to determine the womanhood of someone.

Following GRS, in most jurisdictions a post op woman can be adjudicated
a female.

In my instance the federal, state and local governments deem me female.

My academic degrees have been conferred in my legal female name and
gender.

I work in a mainstream occupation, go to a regular mainstream church to
worship, ergo socially I function as a mainstream female, and have for
decades

Thus to attempt to keep us in the 'tranny ghetto' because currrently we
can not bear children is a specious argument at best.