Should there be a seperate Forum just for CD/TV's/Clubkids

[BBaggins06]

I am shocked that so many of you see no difference between cd/tv and a ts.

It's not a matter or anyone being better than anyone else- but the differences are major.

One of those differences I understand is supporting a tgirl if she decides to go with SRS as her final transition, and sticking by her side to completion. Personally, i'm attracted to pre-op women as much as post-op and what makes her experience different from you're cd/tv is about 10,000x fold when she has in her mind completing that journey and becoming more than just the image of woman on the outside for the public to see

Um, no. SRS does not "complete the journey" as you put it. The journey never ends and SRS is just another signpost on the road. Mahalo

Matt

I think I must beg to differ with you.

It is true that life is filled with ever changing needs, wants, and goals.

But in terms of 'transitioning', the SRS should be the culmination.

And when I make that statement I am referring to the woman who has
has all the other prerequisites surgeries, procedures, therapy,HRT, etc,
not someone who wakes up one day, flies off to Thailand, and returns
with a neo-vagina.

If a woman has performed all the correct steps, once she has SRS, she is
now legally a female and it is her choice as to whether she choses to
blend into the mainstream, remain in trannyville, or a variation of that theme.

Maybe I can clarify my statement a bit. I didn't mean to diminish the significance that SRS can have in one's life. I just have trouble thinking that it should be thought of as the finish line which was what Otto was implying. Life must go on afterwards and you should try to prepare yourself for what comes after the operation. That's all. Mahalo

Matt

[Felicia Katt]

I'm sorry but that dog won't hunt.

sorry Peggy, but Katt's know a thing or two about dogs and not every one hunts. I don't think the Benjamin scale has a lot current clinical relevance or observation. More modern views on gender identity issues exclude sexual orientation as a criterion for diagnosing and distinguishing between transsexuality, transvestism and other forms of gender variant behavior or expression and also exclude fetishistic transvestism from this spectrum, as it is a distinct phenomenon, not related to gender identity but related to sexual arousal and fetishism.

but even under his outdated scale, you do not have to transition to be a transsexual. Indeed, his first criteria is gender feeling.

Type Four: Transsexual (Nonsurgical)
Gender Feeling: Undecided. Wavering between TV and TS.
Dressing Habits and Social Life: Dresses as often as possible with
insufficient relief of his gender discomfort. May live as a man or woman sometimes alternating.

Type Five: True Transsexual (moderate intensity)
Gender Feeling: Feminine (trapped in male body)
Dressing Habits and Social Life: Lives and works as woman if possible.

Under either of those categories, a person can be transsexual and not be full time. That would make them just a crossdresser to some on here. But not Dr Benjamin or his successors.

Under the Benjamin Scale, you are also apparently only a "True transsexual" if you want SRS and I think a lot of girls might take offense to the idea they are "false" or in anyway less of a transsexual because they choose not to undergo that surgery.

respectfully
FK

[peggygee]

If a woman has performed all the correct steps, once she has SRS, she is
now legally a female and it is her choice as to whether she choses to
blend into the mainstream, remain in trannyville, or a variation of that theme.

I disagree. There's no guarantee that a person like this will never get clocked, never get spooked, and function stress-free. I know post-ops who get clocked often, and it seems to fuck with their heads. I believe that in California, medically, you are always considered male. So on your medical records, where people's prejudices could actually affect your health, you still have a male history to deal with. So not everyone should assume that taking these steps means they will blend into the mainstream without a problem.

I agree with Nicole people are putting so much precedence on the post op surgery! If you don't already feel like a woman before, then I don't see the point in getting the full surgery in the first place. I think you need to be happy within yourself, before you even decide to take that step.


And just because you have a vagina doesn't make you anymore or less a woman.


I know MANY post-op transexuals that look like don king in a wig, but have this self absorbed attitude just because they have a vagina now. However they'd still be clocked out in public, and they could scream "But I have a vagina, I'm a woman I'm a woman. Lets face it people look at you clothed when you walk down the street. And you will be labeled how you look.

Maybe I can clarify my statement a bit. I didn't mean to diminish the significance that SRS can have in one's life. I just have trouble thinking that it should be thought of as the finish line which was what Otto was implying. Life must go on afterwards and you should try to prepare yourself for what comes after the operation. That's all. Mahalo

I agree with just about everything each one of you has said.

SRS doesn't magically solve all of your problems.

And it certainly isn't for everyone.

I would go a step further and say that it would be totally unappropriate
for some, and could be something that they could come to regret,
perhaps primarily because they haven't gone into it with realistic expectations.

For me it has been a good thing.

I have often expressed how unhappy I was with a penis.

Additionally, post operatively it has allowed me career opportunites that
I might not have had.

Yes my identification had 'F' on it prior to my SRS, and I was able to work
at a regular job, but the thought of a physical at work, or sharing a hotel
room with a co-worker, filled me with dread.

Now legally I am female with all the rights, privileges inherent to that. I
don't have to seek ENDA / GENDA protection or state protection afforded
to the transgendered.

Ladies, and gentleman, when I transitioned in the 'bad old days', my goal
decades ago was to assimilate, to be part of the mainstream.

I can humbly say that for the most part I have obtained that goal.

[KiraHarden]

I'll keep this simple. Should there be a separate thread? I could care less. But there is now way in hell a cd is the same as a TS. We may be cousins but we are not sisters. Its not about the boobs, hips, or any other surgery. It's about the brain...

[Felicia Katt]

No problem ref; if those who attempt, clumsily, to suggest that all TS women are in fact men, by stating that any man who has sex with a TS woman is homosexual, are prepared to retract that and accept that this is not the case, that it is indeed possible for a TS to be a woman and therefore for her to have non-homosexual sex with a man, and therefore vice versa, then I will happily extend the hand of reconciliation.

Can I see both hands, out in front of you, fingers spread? LOL Sweetie, I NEVER called anyone a homosexual, and I certainly never called any of my TS friends a man. Nor would I, ever. I have been lucky enough to meet most of the girls on here and consider them some of the most beautiful and talented women I have ever met, and I am blessed to have many of them as my friends. I have many more transsexual friends who wouldn't be caught dead on here but whose name and images come up on here all the time. Anyone who knows me know I have the nothing but the utmost respect for all my sisters. And I hope from them as well.

I also treat other members of the community with respect too. Even when they do things to me or to others that are disrepectful. I think with all I have written on this ugly subject of labels, my real position on all this is clear. If you want to consider yourself straight feel free to do so. And if you want to consider your actions and attractions as non-homsexual, do so. but don't claim they are strictly heterosexual either. Don't force labels that don't fit on your actions or on others actions. Live and let live, or Label and let label. If you want to show your respect and reverance for transsexuals, thre are better ways to do so than by dissing others or by trying to draw distinctions when the ink in that pen is so runny.

FK

[bilko]

No problem ref; if those who attempt, clumsily, to suggest that all TS women are in fact men, by stating that any man who has sex with a TS woman is homosexual, are prepared to retract that and accept that this is not the case, that it is indeed possible for a TS to be a woman and therefore for her to have non-homosexual sex with a man, and therefore vice versa, then I will happily extend the hand of reconciliation.

Can I see both hands, out in front of you, fingers spread? LOL Sweetie, I NEVER called anyone a homosexual, and I certainly never called any of my TS friends a man. Nor would I, ever. I have been lucky enough to meet most of the girls on here and consider them some of the most beautiful and talented women I have ever met, and I am blessed to have many of them as my friends. I have many more transsexual friends who wouldn't be caught dead on here but whose name and images come up on here all the time. Anyone who knows me know I have the nothing but the utmost respect for all my sisters. And I hope from them as well.

I also treat other members of the community with respect too. Even when they do things to me or to others that are disrepectful. I think with all I have written on this ugly subject of labels, my real position on all this is clear. If you want to consider yourself straight feel free to do so. And if you want to consider your actions and attractions as non-homsexual, do so. but don't claim they are strictly heterosexual either. Don't force labels that don't fit on your actions or on others actions. Live and let live, or Label and let label. If you want to show your respect and reverance for transsexuals, thre are better ways to do so than by dissing others or by trying to draw distinctions when the ink in that pen is so runny.

FK

i understand what you are saying.
and may i say before i start,you have some stunning looks.
ok here is the deal on how i feel.
if i was gay,i feel i would find guys attractive and want to do acts with them,seeing as im only attracted sexually to ts or gg i dont consider myself gay at all,but if someone wants to say im gay ,who gives a fuck,i know i dont .

[peggygee]

I'm sorry but that dog won't hunt.

A. Sorry Peggy, but Katt's know a thing or two about dogs and not every one hunts. I don't think the Benjamin scale has a lot current clinical relevance or observation.


B. More modern views on gender identity issues exclude sexual orientation as a criterion for diagnosing and distinguishing between transsexuality, transvestism and other forms of gender variant behavior or expression and also exclude fetishistic transvestism from this spectrum, as it is a distinct phenomenon, not related to gender identity but related to sexual arousal and fetishism.

C. but even under his outdated scale, you do not have to transition to be a transsexual. Indeed, his first criteria is gender feeling.

Type Four: Transsexual (Nonsurgical)
Gender Feeling: Undecided. Wavering between TV and TS.
Dressing Habits and Social Life: Dresses as often as possible with
insufficient relief of his gender discomfort. May live as a man or woman sometimes alternating.

Type Five: True Transsexual (moderate intensity)
Gender Feeling: Feminine (trapped in male body)
Dressing Habits and Social Life: Lives and works as woman if possible.

Under either of those categories, a person can be transsexual and not be full time. That would make them just a crossdresser to some on here. But not Dr Benjamin or his successors.

Under the Benjamin Scale, you are also apparently only a "True transsexual" if you want SRS and I think a lot of girls might take offense to the idea they are "false" or in anyway less of a transsexual because they choose not to undergo that surgery.

respectfully
FK

Yes our views on gender identity and sexual orientation have evolved.

A MTF transsexual does not have to have a libidinal interest in males, nor
does a FTM transsexual have an affinity for females to be deemed
transsexuals.

Sexual orientation for the most part has become a moot point as a
determining criteria for transsexualism.

I also agree with you that transvestic fetishism: a sexual attraction
towards the clothing of the opposite gender, is a paraphilia listed in the
DSM-IV-TR, and is not tied to gender identity.

On the point of 'True' transsexuals, no that might not be the most PC term
but there needs to be some system to delineate the intensity felt by the
individual.

And no that does not mean that the women who isn't desirous of GRS is
less of a woman than the one who does seek it out.

But rather this may guide the clinician in their course of treatment.

So yes the Benjamin gender disassociation scale needs to updated, I
would daresay that the Benjamin Standards Of Care need revision as
well, but I don't think we should throw the baby out with the bath water.

At least until we get something better to guide us, and the Blanchard /
Bailey paradigm ain't it.

[Felicia Katt]

i understand what you are saying.
and may i say before i start,you have some stunning looks.
ok here is the deal on how i feel.
if i was gay,i feel i would find guys attractive and want to do acts with them,seeing as im only attracted sexually to ts or gg i dont consider myself gay at all,but if someone wants to say im gay ,who gives a fuck,i know i dont .

Thank you and thanks to everyone else who spoke up for me here or in the chatroom.

FK

[hondarobot]

shut up

No fucking doubt.

[hondarobot]

That was directed at the topic, not any poster. This is a long dead subject.

Over and out.