MONEY FOR TIME AND COMPANIONSHIP ISNT ILLEGAL IS THIS TRUE?

[Thuggish_Intellect]

SO BASICALLY DONT TALK ABOUT SEX AND MONEY ON THE PHONE? I USUALLY ALSO MAKE A CLIENT PEEL BUTT NAKED BEFORE HE GIVES ME ANY DONATION THAT MAKES ME FEEL SAFE AS WELL.

Never accept cash in hand. Have them place a "donation" in an envelope somewhere away from you and don't open it until the client leaves. It would be even better to do online transactions before hand (paypal, or some other online payment firm). You are contracting for time and companionship, the actual illegal act takes place when you "talk" sex and "exchange" money...illiciting prostitution in other words.

[Shining Star]

1- Those "statements" about payment for "time" etc, are not worth the words/bandwith they are printed on, and will not stand up in court.

Most LE use several critera for busting, not just what is written in the advert. Most common is the "duck" rule (if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, it is a duck); combined with standards of behaviour for a normal decent female/male.

Case in point: Girl has ad up on Eros, but has a statement to the effect of the original poster's . Undercover calls up (they can get the phone number several ways, including trolling forums like this) as the phone call goes like this:

Cop: - Hi, I've been there before, I'd like to come over
Girl, Sure, call from the corner of X and X or whatever
Cop - Hi, I'm at the corner
Girl, Ok, come to 222 East 89th Street, 4A

Girl answers door in lingerie, and allows cop in. Cop says how much is it? Girl says $$$, cop puts down money and girl either gets fully undressed/ and or asks cop to get undressed.

This goes on for a bit then there are series of loud knocks at door and words "POLICE, OPEN UP" In short order the girl is busted,and off to jail she goes.

At jail she pleads not guilty and either her court lawyer or her own examines the evidence against her. It turns out there were complaints of heavy male traffic in and out of her apartment, ads in various publications known for prositution. Should the girl insist on a trial, the DA will go into "what was the defendent wearing when she opened the door"? Undercover will say underware or whatever. (This is why some girls refuse to answer the door dressing in anything else but normal street clothes).

"Did the defendant undress"? "Yes, she did after asking me to do so also". DA will hold up that no decent woman/man would invite a total stranger into her home, dressed in a scanty manner and or undressed and took money. Only working girls do this, therefore this person must be that. It works in 99.5% of the cases, which is why so many girls don't bother going to trial. DA may also get into that the girl/guy is a person living without visable means of support. This is done by asking how a person pays her/his rent etc? Where does his/her money come from? If they really wanted to get nasty they can take the person's computer and hack into the hard drive, looking for emails, messages, and links. They can also contact Erosguide and other advertising media that go to the phone to see who paid for the adverts and how.

It is important to remember each state's statue is different in regarding what consitutes prositution. NYS for example does NOT say one has to take money for sex; but AGREEING to exchange money for sex. New York State courts have taken "agreement" to be anything from mentioning money, to taking money and allot in between. Even if a girl/guy does not ask for money, but the cop gives and they he/she offers to have sex (by getting undressed and or some how indicating a willingness) that can be taken as agreement and thus arrest. The money does not have to change hands, nor does it even have to be seen, the fact a girl/guy agreed to exchange sex for money is enough as far as NYS is concerned.

Recently there has been lots of sloppyness about asking for money over the phone/Internet while saying things like "what is included?" or "can you tell me about your service....are you a top or bottom" Most well seasoned girls/guys will only tell location and rates PERIOD, as they assume everyone is cop until proven otherwise. Many will only take funds after a guy as gotten fully undressed and or touched them. This last bit may not always be full proof for two reasons: police can and have lied about what has gone on before the bust, and some states allow police to undress and even touch a pro during the process of an undercover bust. LE in New Orleans for instance not only gets buck naked, but will touch a girl all over to "prove" they are not cops. The girl can touch the cop as well (something that is NOT allowed in NYS). In NYS in fact some girls swear by always making a guy touch their privates/and they touching him all over. This is not allowed and if the girl brought it out at her trial could put the case in jeopardy.

The second reason to never discuss funds/services over the phone is the girl/guy could be undercover and setting up a sting for the john. Granted with trannies this is not easy as not too many cops look that good in drag, but one never knows.

[Shining Star]

[quote="Ecstatic"]You must have a usernameassword for that site, Felicia; I tried and could not access it, either.

Allanah, excellent points. You clarified the distinction I made earlier between escorting and solicitation/prostitution; the disclaimer on Eros serves to notify any interested parties that the escort in question is selling her time and companionship, not sex, but if LE gathers evidence to the contrary, it won't hold up.

Think Eros much like all other sites that take ads, puts up that comment to keep themselves from being hauled in for promoting prositution. Even the review sites like TER have a long rant about how the reviews posted are considered "works of fiction" by TER and that transcations between TER reviewers and escorts are private transactions for a person's time.........

Meanwhile TER is famous for requesting it's members post reviews of escorts with "juicy" details and lots of information.

[Shining Star]

Well, I think it depends upon you and the guy. I like to ease into things, and chat for a while first, but I quite understand it. It's both a cue that you're ready for action and a safety valve as NYCe said regarding LE (law enforcement), since they are going to have a hard time busting you if they're already naked. I don't think you need to jump right to "why don't you get comfortable," but don't start anything until you do. Always invite the client to get comfortable before you begin the session in ernest, even if you've been sitting sharing some wine for a few minutes of small talk first.

This is not totally true? Ever hear of "good cop/bad cop". Many times the undercover will pretend he is just a "guy" who happened to be there when things started going down. This also helps him maintain some cover as hopefully the girl won't blab his ID to everyone (thus rendering him useless for undercover vice). Also as per my other post, many states do allow cops to get totally undressed when making an undercover bust. NYS does not, but Louisanna does. Well that only works if the girl isn't smart enough to put two and two together.

Usually by the time cops knock on a girl's door, there are several cars of cops and a paddy wagon already in place near/outside her apartment house. In NYS in particular where there were problems several years ago with cops getting too cozy with working girls, 5 or more cops show up on a bust including one senior vice dectective to supervise the whole thing. It isn't pretty!

[Ecstatic]

Shining Star, you are right, but remember that this is a game of averages, and the best that an escort can do is to try to play the averages to her advantage as much as possible by reducing their likelihood as much as possible, thus taking all these precautions. They may not work, and she may still get busted--that's a big risk, always--but if she's going to play the game, she has to take every measure she can to protect herself.

From what I've read (in various places, from LE, escorts, and johns), the point you make about "complaints of heavy male traffic in and out of her apartment" is often the determining factor in who to bust. It's too difficult and time consuming for LE to try to randomly bust escorts without this driving motivation: police are understaffed and overworked, and typically respond to citizen complaints (or work from a mandate to solve a specific perceived problem, such as prostitution, but there are more efficient ways to bust more offenders for prostitution than combing Eros ads for TS escorts).

[Shining Star]

Shining Star, you are right, but remember that this is a game of averages, and the best that an escort can do is to try to play the averages to her advantage as much as possible by reducing their likelihood as much as possible, thus taking all these precautions. They may not work, and she may still get busted--that's a big risk, always--but if she's going to play the game, she has to take every measure she can to protect herself.


From what I've read (in various places, from LE, escorts, and johns), the point you make about "complaints of heavy male traffic in and out of her apartment" is often the determining factor in who to bust. It's too difficult and time consuming for LE to try to randomly bust escorts without this driving motivation: police are understaffed and overworked, and typically respond to citizen complaints (or work from a mandate to solve a specific perceived problem, such as prostitution, but there are more efficient ways to bust more offenders for prostitution than combing Eros ads for TS escorts).

What consitutes "heavy traffic" is not a hard fast rule and in cities like NYC that have adapted the "Comstat" model of policing just one report can be enough to trigger an investigation.

By the time a final bust has been set up/LE goes for a person, they usually are 99.5% certian of what is going on inside a location. This can be achieved through watching a location, reverse looking up the phone number, matching the phone number at a location to adverts in various media known for running "ads". Contrary to what you believe/were told many LE vice departments have areas set up where they not only have a stock of local printed media that features "ads", but access to the Internet for researching online adverts/setting up meetings via Internet. LE can and does make "cold calls" to ads to find out things.

Keep in mind also lots of people read things like Village Voice or may even skim around Eros or Exotics. If they notice an ad for a person that lives in their building/street, it won't take long to put two and two together. Smart girls/guys actually would go into their hallways/lobbies after a date left to make sure he didn't discard copies of "Screw" or whatever publication their ads were in, in the lobby or hallways (very common).

Anytime someone calls and says they are at a certian corner, are given the address and never arrive. Or, a guy arrives and the girl opens the door in lingerie/invites the guy in and asks him to undress, etc; but the guy turns around and leaves it must be seriously considered they were LE gathering information. Sadly some providers are sloppy, and not doing what they should to handle their business. This just makes LE's job easier.

LE is not just out for the bust, they are building a soild case so if/when the bust happens and things go to court the DA will have a nice thick file of information to work from.

Say LE calls a number and says "what is your location and how much is xxx"? A answer like "East 38th and Park, XXX is $$$ per hour" has just confirmed what is going on at the location and it is not a legitimate business.

A NYC LE told me and have heard it from girls/guys who sadly found out the same thing the hard way; "We (LE) know where every single one of you (escorts) are. It is only a question of how much time and effort we want to spend getting you". Knew a girl who got popped and she could her LE in another room making cold calls while she was being held at the police station. In fact watch Investigative Reports on cable, it shows LE in New Orleans in a "safe room", with adverts all over the place calling girls/guys.

Face it, most adverts for "escorts" in places like Eros, Village Voice, Exotics , etc are for one thing. The advertisers, agencies, girls/guys/ and LE all know this, so it's not fooling anyone.

Perhaps a person that does not advertise and works on work of mouth references only, could stay under the radar if she/he kept traffic to a low level. But again it could only take one complaint and an officer with time on his hands to start the ball rolling. You'd be surprised how much money many areas spend on vice/busting.

As for law of averages, the longer a girl/guy is in one location the greater odds they will get caught sooner or later. This may hold true more for big cities like NYC where people live very close together and those living around the person "notice" things over time. Things like this person has money but is never seen going to any sort of employment. People coming and going all hours of the day, telephone ringing all hours of the day.

In short, as you say it is a game of averages, and the best one can do is to try and keep one step ahead of LE.

[Adam_Thompson]

Damn Shining Star, are you writing a book report on Prostitution over there...pretty intriguing

[Ecstatic]

Shining Star, I don't deny that everything you say is true, to a point. But so are the counterpoints. The main thing, I think, is for an escort to be as discrete and careful as possible, and take whatever precautions are possible to lessen both the likelihood of getting busted and the severity of the bust if it occurs. Otherwise, if one takes all that you say as gospel, then the only sensible course of action is to not escort, period. Yes, the police have all the facilities you describe, from print media to the Internet, and vice stings are set up routinely, and more is known about individual escorts than most would believe, but LE also can't afford the time, money or manpower to chase down every possible lead, but only a high profile fraction of those leads (depending upon the emphasis given to vice for LE in any particular jurisdiction, obviously much greater in some areas than in others). If there were not true, every escort who posted an ad on Eros or in the Village Voice or any other venue would be busted. So a smart escort is going to be aware of these factors and try her best to minimize her risk (knowing full well that the only way to avoid the risk altogether is to not escort).

[Shining Star]

Shining Star, I don't deny that everything you say is true, to a point. But so are the counterpoints. The main thing, I think, is for an escort to be as discrete and careful as possible, and take whatever precautions are possible to lessen both the likelihood of getting busted and the severity of the bust if it occurs. Otherwise, if one takes all that you say as gospel, then the only sensible course of action is to not escort, period. Yes, the police have all the facilities you describe, from print media to the Internet, and vice stings are set up routinely, and more is known about individual escorts than most would believe, but LE also can't afford the time, money or manpower to chase down every possible lead, but only a high profile fraction of those leads (depending upon the emphasis given to vice for LE in any particular jurisdiction, obviously much greater in some areas than in others). If there were not true, every escort who posted an ad on Eros or in the Village Voice or any other venue would be busted. So a smart escort is going to be aware of these factors and try her best to minimize her risk (knowing full well that the only way to avoid the risk altogether is to not escort).

Of course one has to be on top of one's game to avoid contact with LE and arrest, but to assume LE will only go after "high profile" girls or persons brought to their attention via complaints is a very dangerous idea for an escort to have.

A second "yes" to your other conclusion that the only sane option is not to escort. The same way it is not sane to obtain money by robbing a bank, or mugging someone. Regardless of how many young trannies feel about the occupation, the fact is it is still a crime. A crime many areas devote vast amounts of time and money to curb. Think you do not realise the vast amount of power LE has to investigate potential criminal action. These powers have been expanded with recent post 9/11 events.

I've told you before, it does not take much to find out what someone with an ad is up to. All LE has to do is start making phone calls to numbers listed in adverts/on line ads. If LE calls and says something like "I'm calling about the ad", and the person at the other end answers "I'm at E87th and Broadway, it's $$$ for an hour", it's pretty much a given you are not selling Girl Scout cookies up there. The one phone call in and of itself may not be enough to warrant setting up a bust, but it can start the ball rolling. If complaints come in about a certian address (all LE vice squads have reverse phone books, and or can get the information from the phone/cell phone company), so they can match a phone number in an advert with an address.

Yes, different areas are going to have various levels of resources to devote towards "vice". But then again how many escorts do you think you'll find in "Corn-Growing-Who-Gives-A-Darn" Kansas? Most major cities like LA,NYC, New Orleans and others are going to have higher levels of escorts simply because that is where the money is in terms of tourists and local residents willing to pay. If this were not true Eros and other Internet sites would not have so many "visiting" girls in major cities. If they could make their coins locally, they'd probably save the hassle and stay put.

It may be hard for you to get around this concept, but for cops working "vice" tracking down escorts and other vice (which are crimes) is what they are paid to do. They are not going to sit around waiting for leads to come to them when there are escort ads in almost every major publication from New York Magazine to Village Voice, not to mention the Internet sites. These adverts are fooling no one. Persons reading them, LE, the DA's office, everyone knows the deal.

LE is not stupid, they do not believe for a second just because the streets have been cleaned of streetwalkers that "P" has gone away. Just like the drug trade, the Internet and cell phones have made indoor operations much easier to the point only really low level operators work the streets. It may be only the big "Trump Tower Madam" you hear about on the news, but read small local weeklies or for that matter take a trip to Mid-Town Community Court ( where many Manhattan prosie arrests are dealt with) some morning. The place is not empty, and all those girls/guys/trannies were not from the street or because of planned sting operation.

As for Eros versus the Village Voice, don't know it it still holds true, but there was a time when girls with adverts in the Voice were getting busted more than those who advertised only on Eros or Exotics. How could this be? The only rationale answer is that LE trolled through the Voice and let their fingers do the walking to an arrest.

Two years or so ago, there was an article in one of the NYC weekly newspapers about "P" and the Upper East Side of Manhattan. It featured an interview with one of the undercover cops involved with making busts. He stated one source of "leads" was the advertisments. Yes, complaints were mentioned also, but a bulk of vice's work came from good old fashioned police work.

I'm not trying to come down on you, but rather trying to disabuse you of a dangerous notion that if one operates on the down low, they will never get caught. Have had the sorry misfortune of having to go either down town or to Mid-Town Community Court to rescue someone who was popped. When they relate how things went down, you really want to slap them sometimes for being so careless.

The smartest thing anyone can do is work for a short a period of time as possible, and get out of the business. If one stays at the job long enough, sooner or later contact with LE is going to happen. It may take 10 years or 10 days, but it will happen. Especailly in an uptight city like NYC that seems to have a thing about sex.

[Ecstatic]

Shining Star, you definitely have an axe to grind here, and no degree of counterpoint is going to change your opinion, so why even try? You have nothing to disabuse me of, please: I've already stated several times that you are right...but only to a point (on a sliding scale which varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction). In point of fact, it's probably more likely for a escort to get busted in East Corn Row, Kansas than in many big cities, both because the community standards are more set against "P" and because of simple numbers, there being far less activity.

There are many reasons Eros girls don't get busted as often as Village Voice girls, including the fact that a high percentage (especially in some cities) travel frequently and there isn't enough time nor interest on the part of LE to crack down on girls who are here one week and then gone for a month, three months, or longer. But local girls who "escort" (a euphemism if ever there was one) out of their own apartments in known parts of a city are far more apt to both be watched by LE and reported by irate neighbors.

Anyway, you say "the smartest thing anyone can do is work for a[s] short a period of time as possible and get out of the business." I'd have to disagree; based on your own reasoning, the smartest thing anyone can do is not escort at all. No risk, no bust, period. But that isn't going to happen, and the percentage of busts is always a fraction of the total traffic. Some jurisdictions place very little emphasis on busting "escorts" without outside complaints because they have deemed it more worthwhile to channel their energies, manpower and money in other areas: this varies of course from place to place and time to time.

Anyway, I really don't disagree with you; if you check my posts, I'm simply saying that, if someone is going to escort, then she should take all the precautions she can. If she wants to guarantee she won't get busted, then she simply shouldn't escort; otherwise, it simply makes sense to minimize your risk as much as possible. LE is not going to bust every escort. It simply won't happen, though to assume therefore that you in particular won't get busted is a fool's gambit.