Illegal Immigrants and drivers licenses

[Mr_Choc69]

Illegal Immigrants and drivers licenses

So just so I am clear. You can be in the country ILLEGALLY and still get a license to operate a motor vehicle (with little or NO identification).

But if an American citizen goes they need to supply at least two forms of ID and a first born.

Outrageous!!

[Quinn]

Illegal Immigrants and drivers licenses

So just so I am clear. You can be in the country ILLEGALLY and still get a license to operate a motor vehicle (with little or NO identification).

But if an American citizen goes they need to supply at least two forms of ID and a first born.

Outrageous!!

Couldn't agree more. Eliot Spitzer of New York is a fucking moron. The economics of illegal immigration are ruinous for this nation's working and middle classes, but elements within each of the big two political parties have self-serving reasons to forgo defending the public interest in this matter.

-Quinn

[corbomite]

not outrageous. we need all foreigners in the country to vote to beat the evil republicans and a license is id used to show when voting.

[Quinn]

LOL... Tom W.

-Quinn

[qeuqheeg222]

are they gonna really turn out to vote???they cant get the day off from work........

[tsmandy]

I don't really understand. Would you prefer people drove without licenses and without insurance?

Illegal immigrants are not the problem with this country, and certainly not the problem with our economy. Of course, they make real easy scapegoats, and they cannot hire PR firms to re-direct Nativist anger, like say Enron, Halliburton, Exxon Mobil, George Bush, etc...

From a public health perspective, insured, licensed drivers (regardless of whether we call them "legal" or "illegal") are much safer on the road, then un-insured, un-licensed drivers.

Scapegoat economics work real well when you don't know how to do the math. Add it up, without migrant labor the US economy would crumble. Who would provide the super-exploitable labor for the factory farms? Whose children would work in the strawberry fields at the age of 11 for us?

There is a very long history in this country, of craven, vile men: pointing the finger at the dispossessed while robbing the country blind.

[trish]

our companies are employing them over there, so we won't have to employ them here

[Quinn]

I don't really understand. Would you prefer people drove without licenses and without insurance?

Actually, I would prefer that a select few individuals, in the pursuit of narrow political agendas, not act to enable and encourage violations of our laws. The verdict is in, and the public does not support this. Even in New York State, one of the most liberal states in the U.S., over 70 percent of the population is against this type of short-sighted agenda.

Illegal immigrants are not the problem with this country, and certainly not the problem with our economy. Of course, they make real easy scapegoats, and they cannot hire PR firms to re-direct Nativist anger, like say Enron, Halliburton, Exxon Mobil, George Bush, etc... ?

I understand your desire to associate upholding this nation’s laws – and protecting the economic wellbeing of its working and middle classes – with some xenophobic movement born from right-wing institutions, but the reality is that opposition to these sort of reckless polices comes from across the political spectrum, including majorities in the center and on the left. Furthermore, if you believe that advocates for illegal immigration are not organized to the point where they are hiring PR firms to argue their case, you need to obtain greater familiarity with the issue at hand because that’s been taking place for some time now.

Scapegoat economics work real well when you don't know how to do the math.

Wow, that’s a presumptuous statement if ever I heard one – the implication being that only you and those who hold your view “know how to do the math.” Given the extremely complex nature of economics as a field of study, I have to admit that I am more than a bit curious regarding your qualifications to render so sweeping a judgment. Speaking as someone who has extensive experience (both academic and professional) performing detailed economic analyses – it’s an integral part of what I do for a living – I don’t think I could ever feel comfortable making that particular statement without looking foolish.

There is a very long history in this country, of craven, vile men: pointing the finger at the dispossessed while robbing the country blind.

While I am inclined to agree, in part, with this statement, I don’t think this type of dogma can serve as the basis for any objective analysis of this issue. Still, if all you’re looking to do is satisfy preconceived notions, it’s easy to find innumerable special interest funded, agenda driven research studies to argue any perspective you like.

-Quinn

[Mr_Choc69]

I don't really understand. Would you prefer people drove without licenses and without insurance?

Actually, I would prefer that a select few individuals, in the pursuit of narrow political agendas, not act to enable and encourage violations of our laws. The verdict is in, and the public does not support this. Even in New York State, one of the most liberal states in the U.S., over 70 percent of the population is against this type of short-sighted agenda.

Illegal immigrants are not the problem with this country, and certainly not the problem with our economy. Of course, they make real easy scapegoats, and they cannot hire PR firms to re-direct Nativist anger, like say Enron, Halliburton, Exxon Mobil, George Bush, etc... ?

I understand your desire to associate upholding this nation’s laws – and protecting the economic wellbeing of its working and middle classes – with some xenophobic movement born from right-wing institutions, but the reality is that opposition to these sort of reckless polices comes from across the political spectrum, including majorities in the center and on the left. Furthermore, if you believe that advocates for illegal immigration are not organized to the point where they are hiring PR firms to argue their case, you need to obtain greater familiarity with the issue at hand because that’s been taking place for some time now.

Scapegoat economics work real well when you don't know how to do the math.

Wow, that’s a presumptuous statement if ever I heard one – the implication being that only you and those who hold your view “know how to do the math.” Given the extremely complex nature of economics as a field of study, I have to admit that I am more than a bit curious regarding your qualifications to render so sweeping a judgment. Speaking as someone who has extensive experience (both academic and professional) performing detailed economic analyses – it’s an integral part of what I do for a living – I don’t think I could ever feel comfortable making that particular statement without looking foolish.

There is a very long history in this country, of craven, vile men: pointing the finger at the dispossessed while robbing the country blind.

While I am inclined to agree, in part, with this statement, I don’t think this type of dogma can serve as the basis for any objective analysis of this issue. Still, if all you’re looking to do is satisfy preconceived notions, it’s easy to find innumerable special interest funded, agenda driven research studies to argue any perspective you like.

-Quinn

Quinn - Well said!

[hippifried]

I'm not buying this:

The economics of illegal immigration are ruinous for this nation's working and middle classes

or this:

without migrant labor the US economy would crumble.

There's an incredible dearth of factual information in the discussion of Mexican immigration. & yes we're only talking about Mexican immigration because nobody cares about anybody else, & just about anybody else can get here legally without a 10 to 20 year delay before some bureaucrat even looks at the form.

I'm within 25 miles of the border, in a town that's over 75% hispanic. I'm the only one on my block who can't speak Spanish. The folks on one side speak almost no English. I know they've been in the same house for over 20 years & raised their family there, but even the grandchildren, who are definitely US citizens, have trouble with English. The neighbor on the other side, who spoke hardly any English, just moved because he bought a house with a big enough lot to park his semi tractor. Are they legal? Are they illegal? I don't know, I don't care, & I would never presume to ask. They've been great neighbors, & are hard working industrious middle class people.

Every group has their own share of assholes & troublemakers. If you look at the numbers on a per-capita basis, all the "problems" that are foisted on "illegal" Mexicans work out about the same as the general population percentagewise. I consider immigration a non-issue. There's a healthcare crisis in this country. It's not an immigration issue. There's a problem with welfare. It's not an immigration issue. There's an inflation problem. It's not an immigration issue. There's problems with social security. It's not an immigration issue. There's problems with education. It's not an immigration issue. The US is running an immense budget deficit. It's not an immigration issue. We're running an enormous trade deficit. It's not an immigration issue. There's crime in America. It's not an immigration issue. We kill somewhere in the neighborhood of 30,000 to 50,000 people a year on our roads, & there's way too many drunks & generally unqualified & stupid people behind the wheel. It's not an immigration issue. Businesses grow & fold. It's not an immigration issue. Our focus is getting all twisted around here.

I see this whole thing as just another hate campaign. No different than any other that we've seen throughout the planet's history. Some fizzle out. Some get totally out of control. Nobody hates the Irish anymore. Everybody wears the green once a year. During the height of the European diaspora, that lasted from the 1840s to the 1920s, practically half the country was either from somewhere else or first generation here. Those people didn't seek anyone's permission to come here. They just got on a boat. The term (derogatory nowadays) WOP is just an acronym for the line at Ellis Island that most Italians ended up in. It means WithOut Papers. That's all that makes an "illegal immigrant" illegal. Despite all the spiteful rhetoric & popular myth, it's not a crime. It's a civil misdemeanor, tantamount to a parking ticket. That's how the government gets away with mass deportation. If those people were accused of a crime, they'd all be entitled to a trial under the equal protection clause of the Constitution. They're just being moved from one place to another. A big chunk of the nation has been convinced by the whiners that these folks are criminals. The truth is that they're just looking for work & an opportunity to make a better life for their progeny. Isn't that what America's supposed to be about? We claim it is. The self-evident truth that there's an unalienable right to the pursuit of happiness? There's a push to create more laws making it impossible for Mexicans to do that, but don't we already have a law that says it's illegal to discriminate on the basis of national origin? Chanting the mantra of "illegal" doesn't change the fact that this is just another hate campaign. That's the only new word in the rhetoric now as opposed to the same babble that was used against the Irish over 150 years ago.