Do T-Girls who don't do porn give us all a bad name ?????

[justatransgirl]

Sorry I'm late... Hi Mira. Nice to see you here! HOT picture! I still want to double wiith you dear. Guys are you listening? Giggle...

And Kirsty, welcome to the anarchy - you can tether your horse now, I brought my soapbox...

And Danny - I agree that working in the sex industry can negatively affect girls. Look at our suicide rate. I have lost ALL respect for the police and government since entering the sex industry. Hookers often develop problems with intimacy.

I agree with Kirsty that EVERYONE needs to support each other. But sadly it's easier said that done.

I was once asked not to attend a support group because I did not meet the leaders "moral standards" because I was a whore. In San Diego where we live the community is so faractured as to be non-existant.

A couple of years ago we almost got a program set up. I was on the non-profit planning board - until some new members learned I was a prostitute - something I never hide - and suddenly I wasn't good enough to serve. At the same time - the leader of the young adult support group was outted as a whore - given an "award" and booted out of a volunteer job she loved.

THAT is how transsexual sex workers are treated by the trans community.

I do not feel professional escorts and porn stars bring down all trans people. To the contrary, I belive some pros are the biggest promoters of TS civil rights. Why? Because we've been there. Lead from the front.

Our local community is largely held together by one lady - a former prostitute. She tries so hard. She put together a "town meeting" a few months ago to try to bring the sides together - probably 60 people showed up, many of us spoke - maybe it's a beginning.

But the thing is - few of us have anything in common with the others. The Engineers and computer programmers and college teachers don't want to associate with whores. They didn't do it as boys, why do it as girls. They have their college degrees, their homes, families and careers.

Then we have the young girls who got thrown out by their parents at 17 and ended up on the street with no money, no education, no job. And then some other girl says, "Hey, I know how you can make $1,000 a day..." and next thing you know they are on the fast track of tricks, drugs, jail, rehab, death in the gutter.

The good girls and bad girls lives are so far apart.

As for the business vs a job. And I'm talking here about professional internet escorts not streetwalkers.

This escort business is just as much work as any other business. There is marketing, bills, customer contact, appointments to make and meet, computers to service, etc. The visible part that you see when an escort comes to your hotel room is like 5% of the whole.

And the porn business is no different. As adult performers and producers, we have to track income and expenses, we have to recruit "employees" (actors) we receive and issue 1099's and we have to pay taxes. We have web sites to maintain, distributors to supply, production and delivery schedules to meet, equipment to mantain and upgrade, on and on.

And yes it pays better than working at Taco Bell, but we also put in 60 hour weeks sometimes.

OK it's late I gotta go to bed.

Hugs,
Jamie

PS - Here's my f**k shot Mira... giggle

[Kirsty Scott TG]

Wow ..... I am truly gobsmacked !!!!!

I never imagined that my little partially tongue and cheek, rhetorical blurb would inspire such a thoughtful and articulate discussion ...... so thank you everyone for contributing ....... (Soap box/High Horse or otherwise .....)

Understandably not everuone followed my ramblings so I feel first off I need to set some aspects straight about what I was NOT trying to say ......

* I was NOT trying to say that porn/sex industry was a better way to earn a living in comparison to a professional job or a regular 9-5;

* I am most certainly NOT wishing to to create a further divide in an already too fragmented community;

* In NO way am I suggesting that those who do not participate in the sex Industry should do so if they are not inclined;

* I am NOT promoting the benefits of long lasting stains for high level timbers on your house in certain climatical conditions;

* I was not even playing a violin for those who are caught in the Industry and have no other means of earning a living;

* and I do NOT ever wish to play down the acheivements that many TS girls accomplish in undergoing the change, and fitting into society and I would love to know if anyone in that position is truly happy with their lives. Except it is unlikely for those who are have acheived their goal and have broken away from the "scene".

I think she was saying that a lot of judgement is handed out against those who do sex work by those who don't.

In it's simplest form that is what I was initially stating, and would further add against those who indulge in overtly sexual behaviour regardless of whether it is a vocation or for pleasure.

So again thank you all for replying especially Mira and Jamie because it is through actual experiences that lessons can belearnt and if no-one is willing to discuss them i.e on "sites for nice girls" then no-one will learn form them ......

Kirsty
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[Kirsty Scott TG]

Hi Legend, If I may I'd like to take what you said earlier:

I think those girls who don't work in the industry and/or escort buisness have to work extra hard to make a living then those who work in the industry.Those in the porn and who escort don't have put as much effort into it because the buisness doesn't require that much interaction with everyday people who might not even know anything about trans.I just think it's much easier for a girl to get a photo shoot or a desperate chaser then a high entry job.I'm not saying they are any smarter but they have to work extra hard and should be giving their proper respect.

and add to that ........ because I was sort of alluding to this in my opening gambit.

For a Transsexual, regardless of legal rights and claims, holding down a real life job for want of a better description is extremely difficult.

Ok there are going to be exceptions to every rule and perhaps a 9-5 checkout job or a clerical assistants job backed up with political will are distinct possibilities .... but do they offer the financial rewards that could be attained, especially for the younger girls in the sex Industry?

Take your average professional worker with transgendered issues. Gone through college/University and qualified as an Architect or Lawyer ........ sure the law states you can't sack someone for being transgendered but in reality ....... ?

A girl doesn't just transform over night, we all know the rules, live as a girl for a period of time to adjust .... so there is protracted period of change which is a essentially a public metomorphisis .......

Society unfortunately does not live up to it's title ........ clients generally don't want to use that firm anymore, perhaps they'll use another where they can deal with genetically born men and women ......

Not All of course but perhaps a significant number to effect company finance ...... so perhaps the financial aspects that the person was used to are no longer available .... coupled with lets face it expensive surgical procedures, probably relationship turmoil and family troubles ......

and it's then the choice of the less paid but more likely source of steady and acceptable income or the alternative .........

The sex industry is not all fun and games either and I'll leave others to post their own experiences to back this up ..... and Jamie has started to expand on this already ...... but it can be a harsh reality and necessity for many who want to or have gone through the transitioning ......

In neither case should anyone expect to be ostracized from this community (who should no better than any other about a requirement for tolerance ..... ) for the choices they make.

If we can't accept each others differences than how the bloody hell can we expect the rest of society to accept us with open arms ..... or legs if that be the case?

Kirsty
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[biguy4tvtscd]

do they offer the financial rewards that could be attained, especially for the younger girls in the sex Industry?

Of course, the reason the financial rewards are higher is because it is an illegal/taboo/blackmarket/yada, yada, yada, industry.

The more accepted the industry becomes, the lower the rewards will go.


Back to your original point, I couldn't agree more. If tg's wish to become more accepted by "straight" society, step one has to be to stop cutting each other down internally.

Just like the old song...United we stand, divided we fall.

[Wicked Mira]

Kirsty, I love you! Bless you, girl. I can't tell which I'd rather do, hug you or fuck you. How about both?

Jamie, you're a treasure also.

Ok, here I go again. First, the above two women are evidence of just how frequently you find that TG women are intelligent. I think there has to be a greater per capita ratio of intelligent women among the TG population than elsewhere. TG women are so incredible and extraordinary. We draw upon the totality of ourselves, with considerable socialization and education in the ways of men but with a need to so fully express our femininity, and who we are within. I'm so proud to be TG, with all it's immense challenges and difficulties. The climb up the mountain is ardous as hell but the view is stunning. Few get to experience what we do. And unless you've made that journey you can't possibly know.

This isn't to say there aren't dysfunctional, mentally challenged individuals among us for the complexities of gender (whatever that is!) doesn't limit itself to race or intelligence. But I have known so many truly astonishing TG women in all walks of life--the street, lawyers, doctors and surgeons, artists.

The important thing is that everyone one of us makes a choice as to who we will be in this world--whether by charting our own course or following one laid out for us by others. And the fact that we as TG women choose to be who we are despite the discrimination and ignorance that we must confront makes us very strong and powerful people.

Lastly, and since we on the subject of being powerful in our lives, all that ever matters is that every one of us defines ourselves. If we don't others will. There are many people alive who must face greater challenges to living their lives as whole human beings than we do and its all about courage and going out there and doing it despite it all.

I once had a professional life that depended upon clients to keep it alive. I was terrified at what would happen when I finally came out to the world that I was undergoing a sex change. I thought they would bolt, disgusted by my choice and not wanting to be associated with me. But they didn't. In fact, one of them, who was as manly a man as you will ever find said that it didn't matter because he knew me to be a good person and he had no doubt that my choice would make me an even better one. I hope he was right; I believe he was. My choice now to follow my passion and be an escort and performer is born out of desire, not necessity.

It's all in who we are, not our gender.

Again, thank you, Kirsty. What a wonderful surprise this has been.

[BrendaQG]

funny
I find working in the escort and movie business actually harder and more challenging than a so called real job.

True.

But.

Any profession is that way. My father a MD. had some of the same basic problems in private practice that a escort does. No show's, deadbeats, legal issues, advertising... All things that every professional has to worry about.

@ Kristy

There is no real alternative for a young TS. Unless they have parental moral and financial support to pay for everything. Even then eventually they are on their own, and reality smacks them in the face. Getting a job as a TS now that anyone can find your birthname etc. via the internet is much harder. Stealth ha forget about it. For many TS's of all ages the answer is to be a professional and run your own business.

If your young and uneducated adult work is all you can do that will make the kind of money it takes to live comfortably or at all.

The elitist would say that school is always the answer. That's a idealizeation. College is not for everyone. It does not make you any less transsexual or any less of a target. I would tell a youg TS if their is a subject they love and want to immerse themselves in go to school. If not and they want to make money and be independant...escort, hustle, protect yourself. It's possible to do both at the same time but their will always be compromises.

[justatransgirl]

That is a very good comment Vanessa - that not everyone is college material.

This is one reason so many t-girls do end up in sex work. It's difficult for someone who dropped out of the 9th grade to run the street to return to school and get a degree in Computer Programming.

But there are many skilled trades ts women can do, but they have to have access to the programs and some kind of income while training - and a job that pays decently when they graduate.

To take home $5,000 a month - $60,000 a year after taxes (the average median wage in SoCal) you need to earn roughly $40 an hour on a f/t job. Off hand how many t-girls do any of you know who earn that who aren't in the sex industry.

Sigh,
TS Jamie

[justatransgirl]

And Kirsty, thanks for your kind comments.

"Gobsmacked" - little doubt that you are from the UK.

I haven't heard that term since a conversation in SF amongst a bunch of sailors at the marina.

Giggle,
TS Jamie

[Shining Star]

Would never advocate escorting as a long term viable career option for anyone, much less young trannies. Working as a means to an end is one thing, and indeed has been done by many both men and women; however long term criminal activity in the long run never comes without costs.

To justify the logic of just because a TS in educationally and socially disadvantaged, is an excuse to run wild carries as little weight,IMHO as when the same agruments are used to justify behaviour of other minorites. Just as with those same minorities it is rather mean to expect nothing more of someone merely because of what or who they are.

Today there are huge advances legally for sexual orientation and gender expression. If one wishes to live one's life passing as a "woman", then many of those benefits go out the window. Duke University of all places has a pre-op transexual living on campus. True, there was the usual ruckus about her living in an all female dorm, but the fact that one of the bastions of education for the Old South accomodated the girl speaks volumes.

Yes, finding work as transexual can be difficult, but it certianly is much eaiser than 20 or even 10 years ago. I've met and or seen transgirls working as everything from nurses to lawyers. Indeed the Sunday New York Times Magazine recently did an entire feature on diversity in the work-place, highlighting the many Amercian companies that work hard to be inclusive in their employees. Microsoft, Verizon, Amercian Airlines, and many others do hire transexuals.

What matters is one is presentable, and able to do a job while getting on with others. You cannot hold any job with a nasty attitude/expecting the world owes you a living because you are a "minority". If you want to be a "woman" and accepted as such, you must also learn to behave like a lady.

As for earning potential of escorts, it is very misleading to only "count the coins" as it were. All escorts generally earn their most money within the first year or so of being "fresh". After that unless they are highly "rated" things taper off and it becomes "work" in the true sense. Certianly after several years, especially with younger and younger girls coming on the scene daily, earning potential goes down. So girls find themselves working harder to make equal or in some cases less money.

Continued escorting over the long term increases the odds that sooner or later one is going to come into contact with LE. If one things finding employment as a trannie is difficult, add being a TS with a criminal record and you then have problems doubled.

Over the long haul, I defy anyone to find any escort, especially trannie that retired from the business with enough wealth to live out their days comfortably, not including those who were working towards an end such as raising funds for college, start a business, or some other goal.

Finally long term escorting distorts one's view of relationships, especially in terms of finding a "partner" of whatever sex one is attracted. Working long term also causes some escorts to become bitter and shut down emotionally. There is a numbing that comes to dealing with men one is not always attracted to, out of economic necessity. There is also a the rejection which comes being rejected not as much for being a trannie, but because one is a worker, even a former worker. You hear it all the time even within the world of men who like/chase trannies; "where can I find a girl who is not an escort" .

Some very sucessful people came from minority backgrounds and over came the worst suffering to get ahead; there is no reason not to expect or hold TS girls to the same standards.

[Wicked Mira]

Some very sucessful people came from minority backgrounds and over came the worst suffering to get ahead; there is no reason not to expect or hold TS girls to the same standards.

Very true. It is, however, also very true that much depends upon the socio-economic background from which you were born into. If you're white and privileged, you are quite likely to have an easier time of it. You will likely have received better education and there will be greater opportunities. If you come from a socio-economic background that is less fortunate, you have probably encountered more brutality and far less understanding in your development. You might suffer from lower self-esteem and received less education and, therefore, have fewer options readily available.

But, it remains true that water tends to seek its own level and who we are inside (our character, intelligence and personalities) determines the liklihood of happiness and success in this world, irrespective of gender and race. Some just have to make the journey with more baggage.

In the final analysis, it's all about judging others for who they are and the choices they make. None of us really have any right to do that, unless our goal is to make ourselves feel better by viewing other's choices with disdain. Whenever I find myself succumbing to judgment of others, I ask myself why I need to make myself feel better at someone else's expense?

I choose escorting now, at this point in my life, because I enjoy it immensely. When I stop enjoying it, I will go off and do something else, just as I have all my life. But then, I am one of the fortunate ones who have more options in life. My father never buried a high heel in my skull because he found me cross-dressing as a child. He told me that he loved me.