The Bible is...

[SmashysmashY]

a theologician once taught me that the only thing the bible tells you about ethical decisions (after throwing everything from leviticus right out the window in the sermon on the mount) is "Love your neighbour as yourself."
whichever way you play it this is a pretty good commandment and this would be a much nicer place to be if everyone actually lived according to it

“What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.”
Deuteronomy 12:32 KJV


“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.”
Matthew 5:17 KJV

The first problem that you will encounter when you try to defend the bible is that it says what it says already. As hard as you try to defend it, it will work equally hard to contradict you. It cannot be defended without prevarication. The second problem is that there can be no authority for you to appeal to in making these moral or ethical claims. If something is right or wrong because god said so then it is arbitrary. And if it is for another reason then why talk about god at all? It’s completely irrelevant. It’s the euthyphro dilemma.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_dilemma

Of course I take a non-cognitivist position so if you want to talk to me about god at all you need to offer a coherent definition of what a god is. If you figure one out skip the shemale forum and go collect your Nobel Prize.

[Quinn]

The first problem that you will encounter when you try to defend the bible is that it says what it says already. As hard as try try to defend it, it will work equally hard to contradict you. It cannot be defended with prevarication. The second problem is that there can be no authority for you to appeal to in making these moral or ethical claims. If something is right or wrong because god said so then it is arbitrary. And if it is for another reason then why talk about god at all? It’s completely irrelevant.

Very well said, Smashy. The above nicely sums up my view on the matter.

-Quinn

[TJT]

Screw Wikipedia. You folks need to go to this sight to learn the truth about the Bible.www.landoverbaptist.org

[SmashysmashY]

Hey, sorry about that edit. I meant without prevarication not with. But I think the point is that you cant offer me a book that is filled with the most abhorrent, vile, disgusting, atrocious things I’ve ever read coupled with some incredibly flagrant insults to my intelligence and then say ‘well, the real point is love your neighbor.’

That is nowhere near good enough to make up for all the despicable things written in there (and if you’ve never read it, please do, I assure you that you will not be a christian for long unless you are delusional). Even if you said “the real point is never hurt anyone,” I would still ask “then why is all that other crazy shit in there?”

But guess what? People loved their neighbors before it was written; people loved their neighbors, who have never heard of it, and I would venture to guess that if it was never written even more people would have loved their neighbors.

And it is not fair to hold it up to this kind of scrutiny because it was written a long time ago by savages and later edited by despots. But when people want to maintain that it is actually something else then we end up in a stupid discussion like this one. (No offence to the op of course.)

[blckhaze]

to me the bible is part of history. It probably excludes ALTO of what happened, but not every damn book is meant to list every fact, otherwise evcery book would looked fatter than war and peace. Being rasie Christian, i tend to use the bible to lead my life, but as a guideline, not as a huge "YOU MUST DO ALL" type thing. Most of the stuff listed inside of it, make sense to me, even when i was young. I think relgion in general is dangeroud because you get zealots who get hyper when someone disagrees with one point, then that leads to violence *points to the middle east* I say if someone want s to think that there are diety(s) is different is different than mine, thats fine as long as they dont try to force their religion on my because they think its the only truth. There is one truth and we as humans will never know how things really work untill we die.

[chefmike]

I think history is kind of a strong word to be using here. I remember someone posting on slashdot that Christianity is the belief that a cosmic jewish zombie who was his own father will make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him that he is your master, so that he will remove a curse from you that was placed there when a woman made out of a rib was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magic tree.

If the bible is a history of the jews then I guess clash of the titans is a history of the greeks.

LMAO...priceless.

[LG]

Meaning ?
Such as... slavery, sexism and lapidation ? This is what we learn from the ten commandments.

1) old testament != the whole bible
2) most of leviticus != 10 commandments... most of it is thrown right into the trash in the sermon on the mount anyway
3) be resonable or this will lead nowhere

Agreed. People are confusing things. The Old Testament is not the whole Bible. To me the Old Testament is just a book of stories with morals- it is no more a true historical account than Homer's Illiad. Some of the books in the Old Testament, such as Leviticus, are truly irrelevant today, though many were once useful, and yes, the Sermon on the Mount and Jesus' teachings of love not only encompass all 10 Commandments but- like you said- throw all the rules and regulations out of the window.

The 10 Commandments do not advocate slavery or sexism. Some parts of the Old Testament do, but not the Commandments, do. I mean no offense to North_of_60, but must say that people shouldn't criticise what they can't understand and shouldn't try to form an opinion on what it seems to me they haven't read.

I have read the Bible through and I opt to stick to the New Testament, and especially what is contained in the four gospels. That is still my own opinion, but at least it is one formed after research and education on my behalf.

And, let's not blame a book for the way it is interpreted by humans, SmashysmashY.

[trish]

I’m just agreeing (I think) with most poster’s here that both testaments are tawdry historical fiction. The first is an attempt to give cosmic significance to the Bronze Age squabbles and tribal politics of the Middle East. The ten commandants begin with god demanding to be recognized as the top dog among all gods. There should be no graven images, no using god’s name in vain and observe the Sabbath. Let’s see then, four of only ten are wasted on god’s egoistic demands for due respect. In the narration of these four commandments, the Exodus account makes clear that the punishment for failure to adhere to theses cosmic laws will be visited even upon the fourth generation of children. Five more commandants tell of things we all know without being told. Honor your parents, don’t kill people, don’t steal, don’t lie, and don’t commit adultery. The last one establishes a thought-crime: no coveting.

It’s not clear whether the second testament negates this list or not, there’s mention of a new covenant but Jesus also warns us the old laws are still in place. It’s probably not fair to characterize the New Testament as an account of the Jewish people. It is an unsubstantiated, self-contradictory account of a (perhaps historical) man claimed to be the messiah. It’s also an account of the formation of the early religion of Christianity. To me Paul sounds like a back-room revolutionary with lots of ego to protect and project.

I happen to agree the golden rule (though not original with Christianity) is a good one to follow; maybe one of the best ethical aphorisms ever. I also like turn the other cheek. It might be an interesting project to make a list of good ethical rules and stupid ones that can be found in the New Testament.

[North_of_60]

I've got a catholic background. I've read the Bible, (old and new testament, from my first year in school), been to church, even served at the Mass. ... but I admit, a long time ago.

(...)people shouldn't criticise what they can't understand

Dogmatic predictable call from most worshipers and believers. Sorry LG, don't meen to offend.

If the law of the lord is perfect and if his word stands forever than what is there to be "understand", or not ? I ask : what should be decrypted as true and decrypted as false. Is there an imam, a priest or a rabbi that is more perfect than his own god ? Is this a personnal choice, a consensus, a paradigm ?

Faith is a non-sense. That's what I understood from the Bible.

Now, if a LG finds enlightenment from "the sermon on the mount." Good for him.

And if a Muhmuh is to follow the "thou shalt not steal" commandment. Good for us all.

[svenson]

organized religon makes much evil in the world today it causes more harm than most bad thngs