Michael Bailey (author): The Man Who Would Be Queen

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

Excerpts taken from:

http://www.tsroadmap.com/info/steve-sailer.html

Bailey has outraged transexuals by publishing in the last third of the book in highly readable form the evidence that has been mounting for a number of years in scientific journals that the standardized explanation of transsexualism: "I always felt like a girl on the inside, even when I was a linebacker, then a Navy SEAL, then the most feared corporate raider on Wall Street" is not very persuasive.

Bailey suggests that male to female transsexuals tend to fall into one of two categories:

A. extremely effeminate homosexuals
B. masculine men who have an odd fetish called autogynephilia, which is a kind of heterosexual narcissism.

His book review at: http://www.transkids.us/review.html
__________________________________________________ ___________

Hmm..Inputs anyone?

~Kisses.

HTG

[whatsupwithat]

Well, first off, I found this fascinating:

" About this website:

This is a website about male to female transsexuals who were obviously feminine as young children and whose social and sexual issues are improved by choosing to live as female rather than male, a decision which usually takes place between the onset of puberty and the end of puberty for the majority of us. We have been called different names in the past, primary transsexuals, "true" transsexuals and most recently homosexual transsexuals. We feel this last taxonomy is more etiologically and descriptively correct and that it holds the most potential for understanding, both socially and therapeutically, those of us who begin our lives as 'transkids'."

www.transkids.us

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

Tell me about it E. Take a look at this:

DIY hormones? They encourage self medicating now? WTF?

http://www.transkids.us/hormones.html

Is this the new breed of transexuals (transexual-homosexuals aka transkids)?

~Kisses.

HTG

[tgirlzoe]

oh lordy this is brendaqg fodder. hell, we have a whole forum to discuss it.

i've been pigeon-holed to some degree and hated on various trans boards where i like to stir up trouble by actually explaining someone's behavior in terms of autogynephilia. it will totally apply to the situation but someone will start going off on personal attacks on bailey and call it so much bullshit.

i try to be rational about the whole thing. i remain a skeptic about everything, i don't totally buy into it but i can see its usefulness.

i was openly gay in high school before i transitioned. however, i had a lot of gender struggles and was very much a sissy and didn't associate myself at all with boys and i didn't even know what gay was and i wasn't then interested in sexual things either. so was my transition a result of my being attracted to men, as hsts theory would have it, or was my gay identity simply a sidetrack on the greater path of developing a female gender identity?

also, i don't really see myself as a "straight girl" either. i'm used to being around crazy queer folks, especially lesbians. after i had come out as gay, androgynous women started confusing me. now, the further i get into transition, the more interest i have with playing with other tgirls. they may not inspire the deep, weak-kneed, drooling lust that an attractive man would but i know some who are amazingly beautiful and i can feel safe, comfortable and relaxed around someone who has had similar experiences to my own.

i identify as bisexual. i think my attractions to men and to women have very different qualities but i can't deny the existence of my attractions to either. anyway, it was a lot easier to say "i like boys" than to say "i don't like girls" (proving a negative) and anyway, these days what does "boy" and "girl" even mean anymore?

i think it's clear that autogynephilia exists and there seems to also be evidence that homosexual transsexuality exists. i disagree with the transkids faq which states that "there are simply a limited set of circumstances under which someone would be motivated to change gender". i believe that there are as many ways and understandings of being transgender as there are transgendered people.

the hsts also feels bleak. we aren't usually all logical about our futures, just like everyone else. yes, i was unable to be accepted and function in straight society as a boy and i did decide that i should transition. however, i didn't know if i'd be a walking freakshow even more than i was. i had no idea if i'd ever be passable. i had no idea if guys would be interested in me as a girl (i had pitiful luck with guys in high school). i still don't know what the future holds, what my adult life is going to look like when i settle down, get a career and get married and start a family. am i just going to get "woodworked" and blend in entirely as a normal woman? will my past ever catch up with me and bring my stealth house of cards crashing down, making me more outcast than i was before transition? i don't know these things, i just thought that i should at least try ~ i knew what was in this pasture and it was foul.

i'm happier this way though and my life is much better, even if it caused even more chaos and distance between my parents and i than when i came out as gay. the rest has been very positive. as long as you end up happy, what does it matter why you were upset in the first place?

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

Were you asking me or E?!?

I wasnt upset but I personally dont agree with Bailey's generalization and assessment about transexuality. However, I do believe that transexual-homosexuals or whatever they call it does exist! I was bothered by the fact that the site encourages self medication (DIY hormones) without the supervision of a trained medical professional which could prove lethal.

I'm glad your happy this way. Family will come around I'm sure after everything sinks in with them at some point. It just has to!

~Kisses.

HTG

[tgirlzoe]

Were you asking me or E?!?

i think all of my questions were rhetorical...

I wasnt upset but I personally dont agree with Bailey's assessment about transexuality.

To be entirely accurate, the theory is Ray Blanchard's (of the infamous Clarke center in Toronto), who developed it from an earlier psychiatrist there. J Michael Bailey just wrote a book popularizing the idea. I think he plays more fast and loose with definitions and assumptions than Blanchard does.

However, I do believe that transexual-homosexuals do exist!

Oh, I do as well. What I disagree with is the generalization there are two types of transsexuals ~ homosexuals and non-homosexuals (heterosexual, bisexual, asexual). The idea is that if you are attracted to women at all then that attraction must be your driving force behind transition ~ i.e. autogynephilia. I see sexual orientation as a very fuzzy descriptive (not prescriptive) playing field. I think the bisexuality and even lesbianism which appears in earlier transitioners is usually of a wholly different character than that which appears in later transitioners (who are said to be always autogynephilic). There's something different about transitioning and then fucking (or even dating) a hot t/girl you met in a club compared to transitioning while remaining married to your conventional, straight wife! The differences are minimized when both situations are just lumped into a "gynephilic" category.

I was bothered that the site encourages self medication (DIY hormones) without the supervision of a trained medical professional which could prove lethal.

Pfft, it's so common anyways, it's better to be informed than to just go with the "more is better" approach. I self-medicated and lots of other girls I've met online did it too. It's a good way to jump start the process and I came very close to doing it sooner but I was scared of what would happen to me when my parents found out that I was actually doing this thing. I hate the whole medicalization of transgenderism, that's one of the reasons I cited for avoiding actually getting involved in the whole process ~ I didn't want to be diagnosed with a "disorder" ~ but I caved to necessity. Anyway, my doctor is about as knowledgeable as I am when it comes to trans hormones. The only difference is he can write my prescription.

I'm glad your happy this way. Family will come around I'm sure after everything sinks in with them at some point.

I'm trying. My parents are anti-gay fundamentalists and they sort of "ex-communicated" me from the family. I think waiting a couple years has helped build up a feeling of loss for them, that they would want me back as part of the family even as I am now. They've known I'm trans for over five years now and it's been another two and a half since I started hormones and started realizing that they really are pretty much the only ones who see me as a boy (and probably always will). I had a lovely little experience a couple years back when a nurse asked about my last period in front of my mom and her confusion when I said "not applicable" and my mom got all upset and said "he's a boy!" rather loudly (that was the day they kicked me out). Some day they might resign themselves to the fact that this "phase" that they hoped i would get over when i was little will never end and that, yes, the family name dies with me.

I'm trying slowly though, I don't think anyone should give up on trying to forgive their parents for past abuses and making amends and rebuilding a broken relationship with them. I think it will be better when I'm more stable and i have a "real job" and such and that their doom and gloom predictions did not come true. I just want them to see me as an adult. grr. My sister has always supported and accepted me before transition as gay (she knew, along with the rest of the school, a year before my parents did) and since transition. I think that helps.

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

To be entirely accurate, the theory is Ray Blanchard's (of the infamous Clarke center in Toronto), who developed it from an earlier psychiatrist there. J Michael Bailey just wrote a book popularizing the idea. I think he plays more fast and loose with definitions and assumptions than Blanchard does.

Well I'm from the Harry Benjamin school of thought. So this recent psychiatric "hype" dont make it believable for me. I guess to each her own.

Pfft, it's so common anyways, it's better to be informed than to just go with the "more is better" approach. I self-medicated and lots of other girls I've met online did it too. It's a good way to jump start the process and I came very close to doing it sooner but I was scared of what would happen to me when my parents found out that I was actually doing this thing. I hate the whole medicalization of transgenderism, that's one of the reasons I cited for avoiding actually getting involved in the whole process ~ I didn't want to be diagnosed with a "disorder" ~ but I caved to necessity. Anyway, my doctor is about as knowledgeable as I am when it comes to trans hormones. The only difference is he can write my prescription.

Atleast you've corrected that DIY approach and now has a doctor to administer/dispense prescription. That's the bottomline for most transitioners who care about their health.

And as for family, I can only hope that their forgiveness and acceptance comes before everythings too late for them. Family is the only sole unit we have to fall back on when the going gets rough and we're in a tight, challenging and difficult situation.

So much luck with that at the very least you still got your sister there for you.

~Kisses.

HTG

[yodajazz]

Over the years since it has been out, I have heard a lot of criticism of Bailey and his book. I would say that a minority accept the theories he advocated. However, I have a bottomline question regarding his theory. That is, what does he reccommend as the direction treatment should take, for the two types? Is it any different than what is reccommended by the Benjamin school of thought?

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

Over the years since it has been out, I have heard a lot of criticism of Bailey and his book. I would say that a minority accept the theories he advocated. However, I have a bottomline question regarding his theory. That is, what does he reccommend as the direction treatment should take, for the two types? Is it any different than what is reccommended by the Benjamin school of thought?

I know, right? He can definitely identify..but cannot recommend any directions/treatments? Which is why I detest his theory. Harry Benjamin has been an acknowledged institution for years. So you tell me. LOL

~Kisses.

HTG

[Alison Faraday]

DIY hormones? They encourage self medicating now? WTF?

http://www.transkids.us/hormones.html

I like the way that the site is written, it's very down to earth and similar in a way to some of my views. It's entirely true how the older very late transsexuals go on and on and on about the dangers, and what an absolute bore they are.

Some of the doses on that site though I do question. Pumping 100-200mg of Androcur into a teenager!! Or a dose of 300-400mg of Spiro. Like, self prescribing kids are going to be reading that. 50mg of Androcur yes. 100-200mg of Spiro yes. But 400mg!! That's totally absurd. The kids aren't 7-foot peados in the State Prison taking these drugs to stop them wanking every 5-minutes.

But overall I do like the site and agree with most of it.

There are aspects of it which are in the opposite extreme to the old bitter queens who wouldn't even fart in public. The site isn't quite balanced really. It almost goes in the opposite extreme.

It reads a bit like it's been written by a spoilt and rebellious teenager. But again, there are views there that I share. I don't agree though with the ad-hoc popping tablets advice given though.

And finally, there have been cases of young DVTs and of people becoming disabled. Those stories are rarely told as the transsexuals on the fantasy trip supress them. Just as those who are merely exploring their sexuality are criticised and ignored. Humans are pretty good are this, at ignoring what they do not wish to see. They're actually pretty good at focusing on things that aren't important too.

It's all a flower bed of roses and nice smells eh!?



I stand by what I think. It is not to be taken lightly. Get your cock out and take pictures throughout your adult life, it doesn't bother me. What does bother me though is the unhappiness that it can bring. Transsexuals kill themselves, it's quite common really. They can't talk to anyone as everyone else is on a fantasy trip enjoying the party, and then when they are dead, everyone looks about innocently muttering what a nice they person they were and how terrible it all is. The biggest insult is that those same people speak from a position of authority when discussions arise later.

NOT to be taken lightly by any means. When you are vulnerable and your guard is down, it is very easy to take advice from anyone.