what do u think about crossdressers?

[wendy48088]

* Deleted *

[MacShreach]

I thought it was 2 pints and a whisky chaser!

Arf arf arf very droll, very droll

[MacShreach]

No. That's the difference between a Heterosexual CrossDresser and a Bi-Sexual CrossDresser.

LOL good one

[SarahG]

Question: What's the difference between a CrossDresser and a Transsexual?

Answer: 5 years...

(And after saying that, I am presently donning my flame-proof suit...) Very Happy

I can understand how some people might commonly misunderstand the situation, from a medical standpoint due to similar (at times) appearances/stereotypes/etc but I do not see any way in which a cd/tv can become a TS or how the two conditions can be "blurred"

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to flame/insult/etc anyone here- but I think part of the confusion is the reality that; some tv/cds pass very well and some ts girls don't. Alot of people think about the two conditions in terms of looks (I am NOT saying this is a correct position- but some people make the stance that tv/cds don't look as good as ts's and think 'ugly man in hose jerking off').

If someone takes such a position (or one like it - just not as severe) then it is easy to think a passing cd/tv is like a ts, and that an unpassible ts is like a cd/tv... especially when a ts is first starting off and is part time (much in the way many/most cd/tvs are).

Can someone be both? Yes but its complicated and (at the least) rare. I know a FtM ts who is fully transitioned and he is a cd/tv... and will from time to time, get in a revealing dress, throw on some hose and 4" heels and proceed to clean his apartment/house and uses it as 1- a fantasy and 2- a fetish.

Honestly? I don't see many people (MtF or FtM) who would be cd/tv if for no other reason, because it would involve going into a revertion mode (i.e. a MtF- transitioned, that is a tv/cd would be doing guymode for a fantasy/fetish...).

Now I think complicating these confusions is the fact that alot of people may not know what ts is, find out about tv/cd first- think "maybe that is me" and use it to find out what ts is, and that they are ts. But this fails to change the reality that the patient was *already* ts, they just did not know about the medical condition or the terminology.

[peggygee]

well now shes a hot hungangel.these girls are not hatched or become hot overnight they all start as (crossdressers).just like a flower they all blossom and bloom.

Perhaps part of what is going on, such as even in this thread, is that not everyone uses these terms the same way.

I don't think there are or ever were ts's who started off as cd/tvs- if we are to use the DSMIV type descriptions for each medical condition.

That doesn't mean one is better per say, but I can't see how one can lead into the other or vice versa.

The American Psychological Association definition:


http://www.apa.org/topics/transgender.html

dWhat does transgender mean?

Transgender is an umbrella term used to describe people whose gender identity (sense of themselves as male or female) or gender expression differs from that usually associated with their birth sex. Many transgender people live part-time or full-time as members of the other gender. Broadly speaking, anyone whose identity, appearance, or behavior falls outside of conventional gender norms can be described as transgender. However, not everyone whose appearance or behavior is gender-atypical will identify as a transgender person.

What is the difference between sex and gender?

Sex refers to biological status as male or female. It includes physical attributes such as sex chromosomes, gonads, sex hormones, internal reproductive structures, and external genitalia. Gender is a term that is often used to refer to ways that people act, interact, or feel about themselves, which are associated with boys/men and girls/women. While aspects of biological sex are the same across different cultures, aspects of gender may not be.



What are some categories or types of transgender people?


Transsexuals are transgender people who live or wish to live full time as members of the gender opposite to their birth sex. Biological females who wish to live and be recognized as men are called female-to-male (FTM) transsexuals or transsexual men. Biological males who wish to live and be recognized as women are called male-to-female (MTF) transsexuals or transsexual women. Transsexuals usually seek medical interventions, such as hormones and surgery, to make their bodies as congruent as possible with their preferred gender. The process of transitioning from one gender to the other is called sex reassignment or gender reassignment.

Cross-dressers or transvestites comprise the most numerous transgender group. Cross-dressers wear the clothing of the other sex. They vary in how completely they dress (from one article of clothing to fully cross-dressing) as well as in their motives for doing so. Some cross-dress to express cross-gender feelings or identities; others crossdress for fun, for emotional comfort, or for sexual arousal. The great majority of cross-dressers are biological males, most of whom are sexually attracted to women.

Drag queens and drag kings are, respectively, biological males and females who present part-time as members of the other sex primarily to perform or entertain. Their performances may include singing, lip-syncing, or dancing. Drag performers may or may not identify as transgender. Many drag queens and kings identify as gay, lesbian, or bisexual.

Other categories of transgender people include androgynous, bigendered, and gender queer people. Exact definitions of these terms vary from person to person, but often include a sense of blending or alternating genders. Some people who use these terms to describe themselves see traditional concepts of gender as restrictive.

[MacShreach]

I knew I was a girl before 5, I didn't know what TS was until years later (early/mid highschool). Does that mean I wasn't ts inbetween the two? If I did girlmode during that time on a parttime basis, does that make me a tv/cd? Simply put I was not tv/cd by being parttime or while I didn't know about the condition (for those curious, in the meantime I merely thought myself to be some kind of oddball freak and left it at that).

I think that's very important. Many MtF's I've known well enough to discuss this with would agree exactly with that. They were always female, though several if not a majority did not actually realise what the issue was until they were adults. It was only when they began to realise that they were TG that they discovered that in fact they always had been. It was the "Eureka" moment when the penny dropped. However the time before they realised that they were actually women was very difficult and confusing. I'm sure it's confusing enough for someone who makes these discoveries about themselves very young, I just can't imagine the anguish a TG who discovers the truth about herself when she is middle-aged must feel.

Puberty is a hugely important time, and it's not surprising. Pre-pubescent boys and girls are pretty much the same physically, parents just dress 'em up to look different. And before puberty gender is not so important. A boy may feel himself to be a girl before puberty but not be TG, and vice versa. Any parent I know will have tales of their boy kids liking to wear dresses when they were very small and put on mum's make-up. These are natural occurrences as the child, who has no real understanding of gender or sex, explores the world around him/herself.

It's only when puberty hits that the way we dress adopts a prescriptive stereotype mode, which, together with peer and parent pressure (even absolutely loving, supportive parents exert pressure) and the effects of the flood of hormones forms the adult man or woman.

At this point I believe that the TG person will begin to have real concerns surrounding the dislocation between that person's own self image and the image that their physical body and peer and parent pressure is forcing upon them. They may not know what's wrong but they know something is. That would mean that a young TG, even one who has no real understanding of what her real gender is, is CROSS-DRESSING WHEN IN BOY'S OR MEN'S CLOTHES.

They may continue to cross-dress in this way well into adulthood, at the same time developing all the physical characteristics of an adult male, perhaps marrying and even siring children. But it's all a sham and sooner or later the whole plot will probably go pear-shaped. We may have a chuckle at the fifty-year-old who finally accepts that she is TG and then has to deal with the effects of 35 years as an adult male, but for the person concerned this isn't funny at all.

Now the result of that is that there are many MtF TG's out there who really do struggle to "pass." But because they are women and have always been women, no matter whether they realised it or not, they are happier and enjoy a better life as women than they would as men, even if their lives as women are made more difficult by society's prejudices.

On the other hand, as you say, there are plenty of cross-dressers who do look very, very passable, though as time goes by the effort required to hide the effects of male hormones must increase drastically. It's here that the issue of sex comes in. There are definitely men who are gay or perhaps bi, rather fem looking, who will cross-dress to attract other men. But remember these are men, gorgeous or not, and men are VERY competitive. So if the advantage you need to succeed is to take hormones and get implants and depilation then there are men who will do this. This effect becomes hugely more important when there is a financial consideration--if being a fine-looking woman is what pays the rent, some guys will become fine-looking women. Lisa Lawer is by no means unique, by no means at all.

Now it is possible, I suppose, that just as some of these men, like Lisa, eventually decide they've had enough, or their goals change or they just lose their looks and they decide to revert to male mode, there are others who will go on to have SRS and become physically complete, well as far as is possible, women. Again, whereas this is possibly rare in everyday life, once you are talking about the sex industry all bets are off. And there is always variation in any biological sample.

Now which girls--say the girls we enjoy looking at pictures of here--are TG and which are CD? I've not a clue, but I do know something--you simply can't tell from the outside.

[Ecstatic]

Excellent comments! Peggy, thanks as usual for providing basic clarification of terms. I'm cisgendered: I was born male, and fully identify as male (though not without those feminine aspects of my nature). But transgender covers such a range of types, and so often there's so much rejection of other types by any given type. Of course one can be bigendered, but I think that's even harder for people to grasp than being transsexual.

I knew I was a girl before 5, I didn't know what TS was until years later (early/mid highschool). Does that mean I wasn't ts inbetween the two? If I did girlmode during that time on a parttime basis, does that make me a tv/cd? Simply put I was not tv/cd by being parttime or while I didn't know about the condition (for those curious, in the meantime I merely thought myself to be some kind of oddball freak and left it at that).

Seen from the outside, at that time you would be perceived as a tv/cd by most. But that's external taxonomy, and as Mac points out, that's fraught with misinterpretation. Yet there's no way for someone on the outside to make that judgement, at least not without knowing you well. So it's only the perception. I would say you have always been a TS woman, but had not yet discovered what that was.

They may not know what's wrong but they know something is. That would mean that a young TG, even one who has no real understanding of what her real gender is, is CROSS-DRESSING WHEN IN BOY'S OR MEN'S CLOTHES.

Excellent point, Mac, and society so often sees it the other way around.

Now which girls--say the girls we enjoy looking at pictures of here--are TG and which are CD? I've not a clue, but I do know something--you simply can't tell from the outside.

So true (I'm assuming that by TG you mean MTF TS). I am certain only about those women I know personally, as otherwise it's simply hearsay and marketing. I think I can distinguish the difference in a great many more cases based on any number of factors, but as you say, I cannot be certain. But then again, it doesn't matter, as I will relate to any person according to how s/he presents at the time (along with the myriad of other social facets that comprise any relationship, however casual or intimate).

[MacShreach]

I'm assuming that by TG you mean MTF TS.

Sorry, yes. I can't presume to discuss the FtM situation because I really don't know enough but I would hazard a guess that the concerns are broadly if not similar, at least congruent.

I have somewhere an old magazine which has a photo-essay done by a French photojournalist about 2 Russian MtF transsexuals whom she followed through their SRS. I will try to dig it out (my magazine archive, AKA "the loft" is pretty big!)

Anyway, some time later the photog found that one of them had become involved in a stable relationship with an FtM transsexual. I always though that was interesting, in that perhaps for many TG's of both polarities, the only person who could really understand them is another TG......I'm not saying that is necessarily the case, but I am interested by the possibility.

[classydtwngrl]

Question: What's the difference between a CrossDresser and a Transsexual?

Answer: 5 years...

(And after saying that, I am presently donning my flame-proof suit...) Very Happy

I can understand how some people might commonly misunderstand the situation, from a medical standpoint due to similar (at times) appearances/stereotypes/etc but I do not see any way in which a cd/tv can become a TS or how the two conditions can be "blurred"

Its pretty simple actually, You along with the rest of us started out as crossdressers hence the word cross and dress which means dressing in opposite gender in which you where born (which your gender is still male "but live as a TS women", unless you have had a sex change already, highly doubtful ), but in the case you where born a transsexual then you would have been begging mommy and that "pimp" daddy of yours to turn you into a girl a long and i mean long time ago.

aside from that i would like to add my 2 cents, I firmly believe you start out as a crossdresser then if you step up, you can choose the path of a TS or TV as for being born a TS thats a myth, why? because theres no proof what so ever of a child being born a TS nor will there ever be since the "only" way (and i highly emphasize """""""only""""""" quoted since what im about to say is an inconclusive study) is to do a CT scan and compare it to a women that and find some chemical in the brain that women have (not only that but the human mind is still developing even at the age of 18 ), and just keep in mind, thats a STUDY meant to be research not an explanation as to why we are TS. I think ive said enough criticism and shown the faulty aspects of the study but Anyways! anyone who says that has gone past the line of "already crazy" and stepped into insanity, forgive me for being so blunt but that is the cold hard truth.

[biguy4tvtscd]

I can understand how some people might commonly misunderstand the situation, from a medical standpoint due to similar (at times) appearances/stereotypes/etc but I do not see any way in which a cd/tv can become a TS or how the two conditions can be "blurred"

Well, maybe my outsiders (i.e. neither a CD/TV nor a TS) take on it will help clarify.

Sure, perhaps from a medical perspective, CD/TV's and TS's are different.

But from a social perspective, should they be? Should they consider themselves so different that there's nothing but disdain or elitism between the two groups? Hell, I can't even think of a good reason to consider them two different groups from a purely social perspective.

Seems to me the animosity between TS's and CD/TV's is nothing more than ego and superiority complexes. (i.e. "I'm better because I live full time and don't just dress on weekends". "I'm better because mine is a medical condition and I'm working on it, whereas you're just jerking off in hose."). Based on that, all I can is: GET THE FUCK OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE

There should be a natural, and emphasized solidarity between TS's, CD's, and TV's, and for no other reason than this: When some ignorant piece of shit scumbag is beating you senseless in a dark alley outside your favorite nightclub, they're not going to give rat's ass how your doctor classifies you. They're not going to care whether you're a "guy in a dress" or a "woman born into a man's body", to them, you're just another "freak".
It's not just about physical violence either, the same holds true for those that will hold you back from getting a job, advancing at a job, buying a house, renting, etc.., etc.., etc...

Plain and simple, those that are going to discriminate against you, are not going to pull out their liitle websters book of gender related distinctions, and double check your stauts before discriminating.