before the time of Implants and Hormones...

[Ecstatic]

Peggy, did you see Christine Jorgensen Reveals when it was presented by The Theater Offensive in Boston last year? Excellent production, an amazing reenactment of her late 1950s interview by Bradford Louryk (miming her voice, preserved on vinyl).

I heard about it, but sadly I missed it, as I am a big fan of hers.

Too bad. It was an outstanding production. Louryk captured every nuance of Jorgensen's character, and really showed how much of a pioneer she was, not just in being the first (or at least first famous) successful post-op, but her understanding and articulation of gender identity issues fifty years ago.

[SarahG]

Didn't they have transexuals in the Greek/Roman periods? How did that work?

Vala,

They had it in several ancient cultures. Generally it would be a prepuberty castration and then living fulltime as I understand it... puberty occurred later age-wise in pre-modern times.

[Vala_TS]

Didn't they have transexuals in the Greek/Roman periods? How did that work?

Vala,

They had it in several ancient cultures. Generally it would be a prepuberty castration and then living fulltime as I understand it... puberty occurred later age-wise in pre-modern times.

So is there a site where I can read up on that? And was it by choice?

Vala,

[SarahG]

So is there a site where I can read up on that? And was it by choice?

Vala,

I dunno about sites... I know it was covered in many of the ancient societies studied in past anthropology courses I have taken... but I don't believe I saved any of my old course textbooks.

It was hardly something exclusive to the Romans... with variation it was in all kinds of ancient cultures all over the globe. I remember from one class some middle eastern, N. American Indian, South East Asian and India examples were used.

In the case of the N. American Indians.. some tribes had people who could literally "become the other gender" in roles, responsibilities etc within the culture but without any kind of body modification (forced or otherwise). Seperately the 5 Nations (Iroquios) were famous for adopting captives from various military conflicts- women, children etc. These adoptees were then used in place of people who had died in the society/government/etc. There was no stigmatization involved so a girl of any race could find herself adopted into the role of a male husbend or chief etc. The falsely named beaver wars made this practice famous because of all the European white children who were captured along the frontier and were then raised, socialized etc as Iroqiuos roles- usually these adoptees never wanted to return to the white world, even when required by military treaty (think "Last of the Mohicans").

[Vala_TS]

Sounds interesting. I tried looking on google but didn't find anything.

And is it just me or this look like a transexual portrayed in this pic?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...obu_Shunga.jpg

Vala,

[peggygee]

[tgirlzoe]

For as much as guys on here argue who's a gay, cocksucking faggot and who is a true straight manly man who just likes dick, the ancient world didn't necessarily draw such a distinction.

Many examples of cultures with a homosexual outlet dressed young boys up like girls for entertainment and sexual pleasure. The Greeks and Romans tended to like their boy lovers more masculine than the Chinese, Japanese or Arabs who did the crossdressing.

Some cultures had positions in society for "third-gendered" males or even "fourth-gendered" females, essentially comparable to MTFs and FTMs respectively, that had nothing to do with prostitution but a lot of trans women throughout the centuries have been a dirty little secret for the men. The Qur'an mentions what we would call MTFs and says that so long as they aren't prostitutes, it's okay. (See Mukhannathun).

What is gay and what is transgendered is a fuzzier line in history that most transsexuals and their admirers would like to believe. However, the past two or three decades have given us wonderful advances in hormone and surgical treatments to help transsexuals feel more comfortable in their bodies and to help men enjoy them more Thank God we have the technology and freedoms we do.

[macfan]

For as much as guys on here argue who's a gay, cocksucking faggot and who is a true straight manly man who just likes dick, the ancient world didn't necessarily draw such a distinction.

Many examples of cultures with a homosexual outlet dressed young boys up like girls for entertainment and sexual pleasure. The Greeks and Romans tended to like their boy lovers more masculine than the Chinese, Japanese or Arabs who did the crossdressing.

Some cultures had positions in society for "third-gendered" males or even "fourth-gendered" females, essentially comparable to MTFs and FTMs respectively, that had nothing to do with prostitution but a lot of trans women throughout the centuries have been a dirty little secret for the men. The Qur'an mentions what we would call MTFs and says that so long as they aren't prostitutes, it's okay. (See Mukhannathun).

What is gay and what is transgendered is a fuzzier line in history that most transsexuals and their admirers would like to believe. However, the past two or three decades have given us wonderful advances in hormone and surgical treatments to help transsexuals feel more comfortable in their bodies and to help men enjoy them more Thank God we have the technology and freedoms we do.

I fully agree with you, look at Brazil where its not that big of a deal relative to some other societies around the world. Certiainly the culture plays a vital role in restricting or enabling one to express their desires outwardly without trepidation.