IQ and politics

[Jamie Michelle]

thank u for effectively ending anything anyone cares about...u come across like the retarded jesus freak on broadway in midtown manhattan...who the fuck has the patience to read through ur shit and have the memory to disagree on it all...

ur obviousely pretty smart, and i surmise u got tons of issues...thats why u need god, its illogical, its a need u have, its like AAA, while everyone has it, no one calls them untill they are at the side of the road with smoke coming out from under the hood..the people who find god, ironically, are fucked up people who will turn to anything for guidance, etc..

why do so many fuckin people need direction and all that shit religion implies it lends? live, have fun, soon we are all worm food, no hell, ne heavan, no bullshit...

cmon grow up...ur religion is someone elses superstition...just like thor and zeus and atlas and them all are silly to u, so is jesus to them, ur not right, theyre not right, the only one who can be right is ME!!! lol...since they all cant be right, they all have to be wrong

dont play the religious pr, u know that u believe that jews and muslims, etc will go to hell, since they dont accept this silly christ thing (simplistic and idiotic, yeah i believe in him, i go to VIP lol) and they believe ur going to hell, its a childish game, grow the fuck up...religion was started to explain what we dont understand..its a fuckin scam....and ur the fool....

imagine in ancient rome, the fool who tries to defend the gods, it would take on a very similar stance to urs on jesus...

hey, a caveman praying to a rock for luck is the SAME THING as someone admiring the pope in his robes and waving something with smoke, its just more elaberate costumes kisses

Like I said, I used to be a hardcore atheist, so much of your above statements on how I "need" to manufacture a belief in God are false even on their own terms. As well, none of your above statements are relevant to the truth or falsity of my arguments.

[GroobySteven]

You're as worthless to start an argument with as any fundamentalist.
seanchai

[Jamie Michelle]

You're as worthless to start an argument with as any fundamentalist.
seanchai

I presume you're referring to me. The reason you say that is because I have my facts together and know whereof I speak, whereas you do not. So obviously it would be pointless for you to bring your rubber-band shooter to my gun fight.

[Toro]

Are you saying that because Einstein believed in Socialism, that doesn't make him smart?
What do you base that theory on?
seanchai

It certainly means that he wasn't smart on the subject of politics and economics, unless I am to believe that he actually knew that socialism was a total scam and power-grab and that its economics were unworkable, but that he promoted it for nefarious reasons. What I base this on is economics, as well as political theory, and political history.

I know a bunch of Scandinavians who would totally disagree with you on the socialism thing. And China's closely related communist/capitalist regime seems to be the most successful in the world right now. You're a little too sheltered. There are a lot of people around the world who would say that WE'VE completely lost control. I love living la vida loca here, but they might be right.

I don't have any statistics to back it up, but I'd bet anything that the people who believe that God is a crutch invented to help people cope with fear and the unknown are the ones who also ...
* oppose war and feel that religion and/or cultural divide is the cause for most of it
* oppose imperialism and geocentrism
* believe that humans are the inhabitants of this planet - not Americans or Muslims or atheists
* believe that if stem cell research could possibly save lives and cure maladies, who the fuck is a politician to stand in the way of that science?
* believe that if a woman wants to have an abortion, who the fuck should be able to tell her 'no'?
* believe that - if we didn't have all our retarded religious and ideological differences - we could cure cancer, solve homeless and hunger problems, and explore space and medicine in ways that would benefit each and every single person on the face of this planet

And then there are those who believe in Heaven and Hell, God and Satan, shit like that. LOL. Well, call me a sinner.

[Jamie Michelle]

Are you saying that because Einstein believed in Socialism, that doesn't make him smart?
What do you base that theory on?
seanchai

It certainly means that he wasn't smart on the subject of politics and economics, unless I am to believe that he actually knew that socialism was a total scam and power-grab and that its economics were unworkable, but that he promoted it for nefarious reasons. What I base this on is economics, as well as political theory, and political history.

I know a bunch of Scandinavians who would totally disagree with you on the socialism thing. And China's closely related communist/capitalist regime seems to be the most successful in the world right now. You're a little too sheltered. There are a lot of people around the world who would say that WE'VE completely lost control. I love living la vida loca here, but they might be right.

I don't have any statistics to back it up, but I'd bet anything that the people who believe that God is a crutch invented to help people cope with fear and the unknown are the ones who also ...
* oppose war and feel that religion and/or cultural divide is the cause for most of it
* oppose imperialism and geocentrism
* believe that humans are the inhabitants of this planet - not Americans or Muslims or atheists
* believe that if stem cell research could possibly save lives and cure maladies, who the fuck is a politician to stand in the way of that science?
* believe that if a woman wants to have an abortion, who the fuck should be able to tell her 'no'?
* believe that - if we didn't have all our retarded religious and ideological differences - we could cure cancer, solve homeless and hunger problems, and explore space and medicine in ways that would benefit each and every single person on the face of this planet

And then there are those who believe in Heaven and Hell, God and Satan, shit like that. LOL. Well, call me a sinner.

Scandinavia is not full socialism, and also it has a lot of very valuable natural resources, i.e., oil (think Dutch Royal Shell). I would condsider China "successful" in the sense that it's a successfully powerful despotism which crushes the freedoms of its people, but unless you are one of the privileged few in China then the living conditions are far below that of the U.S. (which itself is hardly a free country).

As far as to whether or not you are a sinner:

When Jesus said of Himself "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me" (John 14:6), He was there being as literal as it is possible to be. In other words, "Jesus" is a synonym for _the Truth_--although also a real person that walked this earth. Jesus is the ultimate personification on this earth of the truth. I believe that there have existed many true Christians who haven't even heard of the name "Jesus."

What is the Way? Jesus told us what the Way is: in all things do on to others as you would have others do on to you (Matt. 5:17,18; 7:12; Luke 6:31). An equivalent formulation of this is love your neighbor as yourself (Matt. 19:19; 22:36-40; Mark 12:28-34; Luke 10:25-28 ). Another equivalent formulation of this is Jesus's Commandment that we love one another as He has loved us (John 15:12,17; 13:15,34,35; 1 John 3:11,12,23; 4:11,20,21). Everything that Jesus ever commanded people to do can be logically reduced back to this one principle--even with adultry starting in the heart: for example, just as you would not like it if every time a good-looking man passsed by your woman she was thinking about how it would be to get with him (unless you agreed to an open relationship beforehand), so also you should give her the same respect as regards other women (or whatever gender).

Jesus said that there are only two requirements for a person to receive eternal life:

-------

Luke 10:25-28: And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"

He said to him, "What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?"

So he answered and said, ""You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,' and "your neighbor as yourself."'

And He said to him, "You have answered rightly; do this and you will live."

-------

But the above two requirements actually logically reduces to only one requirement: to love your neighbor as yourself. As Jesus said anything that we do to any of the least of His brothren we do on to Him (Matt. 25:31-46). So if we truly love each other then we automatically love God as well.

What is the Truth? Jesus is the Truth: wherever you find truth there also you will find Jesus.

But, people may ask: what about the holocausts, genocides, and wars, etc., that have continuously plagued mankind--that's truth, i.e., they really happen, they exist, and they're real; is Jesus these things? And I would answer that those things certainly exist and that we need to come to terms with them if we are to ever overcome them--but: what is it that allowed these grim truths to be brought into existence in the first place? In short: lies, deceit, fraud, and willful ignorance--and all on a massive scale. It was only people's lack of belief in Jesus (Truth) in the first place which would inevitably lead to the above--without this departure from the truth happining first, the others could not have happened.

And so what's the most important truth which one could possibly grasp? The answer is: the Way. 1 John 2:10: "He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him." All other truth pales in comparision to this one principle. Love is fulfillment of the law (Rom. 13:8-10; Gal. 5:13,14). This is the Perfect Law of Liberty and the Royal Law (James 1:25; 2:8-12). If one grasps nothing else other than this then one will have grasped enough. All the injustices and societal problems which so plagues mankind stem from people's failure to abide by this one principle.

And so Jesus is the Way and the Truth: if you abide in these things then you will have the Life (Luke 10:25-28 ).

But what if we don't; what if we may fail at some point, because we are human? Is all lost? As it is written:

Romans 3:23: [F]or all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

I don't think it's too controversial to say that any typical human who is at the comprehension level to understand the above verse has already violated the Golden Rule (of which _is_ sin), even if in just his own heart.

But to answer my above question: no, naught is lost, because if we confess the truth and ask God for forgiveness and believe that we have forgiveness then we will have forgiveness (Acts 5:31; 10:43; 13:38,39; 26:18; Rom. 10:9). This is why belief in Jesus as an actual person sent by God can be so vital.

But what about John writing:

2 John 1:7: [M]any deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

But what else did John himself write about this matttar?: 1 John 2:10: "He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him."

Jesus did come in the flesh, but what did Jesus have to say about Himself?: "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." (John 14:6.)

In other words, Truth did come to the earth in the existential sense, and does exist on this earth, and can be known--as opposed to the moral relativism of Pontius Pilate (John 18:38 ).

Based upon my research into people's so-called "near-death experiences" (I don't really like this term, because most of the times when these experiences happen it is after a person undergoes clinical death and shows no vital signs, and so a more accurate term for these people would be "after-death experience"), this is a spiritual truism for the afterlife: birds of a feather flock together. That is, depending on where one's mind-set is at upon death, in the afterlife one will be associated with people of like mind-set. Hell is very real--Hell exists. But rather than a sharp either/or Heaven/Hell, it is probably more appropriate to think of the afterlife as many levels between the deepest, darkest pits of Hell and the most glorious basking in the presence of the love and light of God--i.e., as a continuum between these extremes (although the extremes themselves certainly exist [although I believe both are probably infinite in either direction], and one can be caught up in either depending on one's spiritual development). Suicides typically report a Purgatory-like existence upon death, because they cannot see the light of God. For more on that, see:

http://www.near-death.com

[Toro]

Scandinavia is not full socialism, and also it has a lot of very valuable natural resources, i.e., oil (think Dutch Royal Shell).

As far as to whether or not you are a sinner:

When Jesus said of Himself ...

If you are referring to Dutch Royal Shell of the Netherlands as Scandinavian, then I know some Dutch people who would be more pissed at you than the Scandinavians I referred to earlier. Like I said, sheltered. And if you are actually quoting Jesus, you're nutty.

[Jamie Michelle]

Scandinavia is not full socialism, and also it has a lot of very valuable natural resources, i.e., oil (think Dutch Royal Shell).

As far as to whether or not you are a sinner:

When Jesus said of Himself ...

If you are referring to Dutch Royal Shell of the Netherlands as Scandinavian, then I know some Dutch people who would be more pissed at you than the Scandinavians I referred to earlier. Like I said, sheltered. And if you are actually quoting Jesus, you're nutty.

So are you saying that Dutch Royal Shell doesn't have oil operations in Scandinavia? That was my point, and I'm sorry I didn't make it clearer for you.

[Toro]

So are you saying that Dutch Royal Shell doesn't have oil operations in Scandinavia? That was my point, and I'm sorry I didn't make it clearer for you.

Yeah. They also have a gas station or two in Canarsie.

So scratch my first first comment and I'll stick with the quoting Jesus/nutty piece.

[Jamie Michelle]

So are you saying that Dutch Royal Shell doesn't have oil operations in Scandinavia? That was my point, and I'm sorry I didn't make it clearer for you.

Yeah. They also have a gas station or two in Canarsie.

So scratch my first first comment and I'll stick with the quoting Jesus/nutty piece.

In other words you, in effect, admit that your position is without substance, since all you can come up with is an irrelevant and false ad hominem attack upon me.

[speck]

* oppose war and feel that religion and/or cultural divide is the cause for most of it

Lack of resources combined with a genetic/environment derived drive for power on the part of every world leader are the cause of war.

* oppose imperialism and geocentrism

In this modern era, there are people who favor imperialism? What nation engages in this behavior? None that I'm aware of.

Your counter argument will be that the U.S. is imperialist and Iraq is an example of that.

Do not use that counter argument without factual proof and rational argument.

Do not use conspiracy theories like the nut case in this thread. I don't believe in them. Nor do most real atheists.

* believe that humans are the inhabitants of this planet - not Americans or Muslims or atheists

You go tell that to Osama for me.

Do you not believe that there are humans who have an insanely strong drive for power? And that in that drive for power, inherently are amoungst the craftiest, if not most intelligent amoungst us? Or at least inherit and develop the skills necessary to obtain power? To control others?

This type of behavior is what has destroyed nations, and built them.

* believe that if stem cell research could possibly save lives and cure maladies, who the fuck is a politician to stand in the way of that science?

Well, if one accepts the notion that embreyo's are human life.......


* believe that if a woman wants to have an abortion, who the fuck should be able to tell her 'no'?

Damm, I feel like killing a few people today. Who the f--- is some politician to tell me I should not?

I'll note here that I do believe that abortion should be legal, but not on the feel-good argument that it is a womans right. Its not anybodys right to take a life, or perhaps even a potential life. Rather, we as a society do not place such a high value on human life as one might think. We allow the death penalty, we allow killing of humans in self defense, most would probably favor euthanasia in certain circumstances, very few oppose the very early termination of a pregnancy as a result of heavy doses of the pill or other birth control. I think that abortion is another exception that fits this category....that is, it is such an imposition and burden that society possible benefits from the terminated pregnancy.

Bottom line is that some people believe that human life is sacred. I can understand their argument. I do not agree with it, but I do understand it. And I do not call someone an idiot or retard because of their rational belief.

* believe that - if we didn't have all our retarded religious and ideological differences - we could cure cancer, solve homeless and hunger problems, and explore space and medicine in ways that would benefit each and every single person on the face of this planet

First f-up is to describe the differences as retarded......giving them no merit whatsoever. The second f-up to the basis of your belief is that w/o religion we would all get along. What a bunch of pot induced crap. Tried in the 60's and failed. Miserably.

Jimmy Carter tried being nice and peaceful to the Soviets his first two years in office. By the time he left he was rebuilding our military(though not to the level of Ronald Reagan) as he realized how much he f---ed up. He is the only U.S. President of the 20th century to use the nice-nice we will trust you approach. He along with Herbert Hoover are considered the biggest disasters as presidents of the 20th century.


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