Israel and the double standard

[guyone]

Funny I don't remember reading anything about Israelis running forced labor camps and massive gas chambers?

It is a shame that the European Jews a group of people that where almost systematically destroyed in Europe can move to Palestine and implement the same type of practices

This is my last post in this thread. Sheep, take over. wmC. This thread will be a haven of people from bad families.

[White_Male_Canada]

Hope we can get a good debate going on about the issue of Israeli and Palestine.

To start it off here is a link to a new movie discussing the issues

http://www.occupation101.com/Intro_stream_hi.html

It is a shame that the European Jews a group of people that where almost systematically destroyed in Europe can move to Palestine and implement the same type of practices that they learned from the concentration camps on these poor people. Goes to show how power corrupts! What does everyone feel on this issue.

Nonsense.

- Israel is a democracy.Arabs have the vote in Israel

-The Tribe of Judah lived in the area for 3,700 years. Judea and Samaria
were deeded to the tribe of Judah.

-The Romans destroyed their state in Judea in AD 70

-The arabs came to dominate by invasion. As nomads no
attempt was ever made to create a state.

-1921,the British separated 80 percent of the Mandate, east of the Jordan, and created the Arab kingdom of "Transjordan." It was created for the Arabian monarch King Abdullah, who had been defeated in tribal warfare in the Arabian Peninsula and lacked a seat of power. Abudllah’s tribe was Hashemite, while the vast majority of Abdullah’s subjects were Palestinian Arabs.

-1948, to partition the remaining quarter of the original Mandate to make a Jewish homeland possible. Under the partition plan, the Arabs were given the Jews’ ancient home in Judea and Samaria.

-The Arab League – representing five neighboring Arab states – declared war on Israel on the day of its creation.

-The muslims who lived in the Arab area of the UN partition did not attempt to create a state of their own. Instead, in 1950, Jordan annexed the entire West Bank.

-1967, Egypt, Syria and Jordan attacked Israel for a second time and were again defeated. It was in repelling these aggressors that Israel came to control the West Bank and the Gaza strip.To the victor go the spoils.

-1973, Syria and Egypt, abetted by Iraq, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and five other countries who gave military support to the aggressors, including an Iraqi division of 18,000 men. Israel again defeated the Arab forces.

--1964, sixteen years after the establishment of Israel and the first anti-Israel war,the PLO was created at a time the West Bank was not under Israeli control but was part of Jordan. The PLO, however, was not created so that the Palestinians could achieve self-determination in Jordan, which at the time comprised 90 percent of the original Palestine Mandate. The PLO’s express purpose, in the words of its own leaders, was to "push the Jews into the sea."

--The official charter of the new Palestine Liberation Organization referred to the "Zionist invasion," declared that Israel’s Jews were "not an independent nationality," described Zionism as "racist" and "fascist," called for "the liquidation of the Zionist presence," and specified, "armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine." In short, "liberation" required the destruction of the Jewish state. The PLO was not even created by Palestinians but by the Arab League

[White_Male_Canada]

america has always been a democracy but that doesn’t mean everyone was equal. Just because Israel is a democracy doesn’t automatically mean that Arabs have the same kind of protections as the Jews.

As opposed to the rights of Dhimmini in arab/Persian/muslim dictatorships.

-The Tribe of Judah lived in the area for 3,700 years. Judea and Samaria
were deeded to the tribe of Judah –

Reply
Don’t forget that 4,000 years ago there was no concept of countries and sovereignty as we know it now. Tribes lived throughout the land not just Jews. Plus based on International law, you cannot make Biblical or Religious claims to the land, that’s the UN’s rule not mine.

You don`t get it. The land was deeded by God to the Tribe of Judah, as Muslim`s they must accept this due to the fact that they too adhere to the Old Testament regardless of any League of Nation or UN.

Reply
The ottoman empire was in control of most of the middle east for 500 years, that’s not a state but people where living throughout the area before, during, and after. Remember White Canadian Male, that most European countries where just barely emerging as a state.

The Ottoman`s instituted Tanzimat which allowed affendi to buy land from the fellahin. The arabs saw their own land sold to other arabs under their own feet 50 years before any Jew showed up. The Jews purchased land from two main sources: The crown and the wealthy Arab Effendi, both local and absentee. The fellahin were already dispossessed. The HopeSimpson report addressed the question of uprooted fellahin concluded that only a bit more than 800 families were actually rendered landless by Zionist land purchases over the decades from 1880 onward.

-1921,the British separated 80 percent of the Mandate, east of the Jordan, and created the Arab kingdom of "Transjordan." It was created for the Arabian monarch King Abdullah, who had been defeated in tribal warfare in the Arabian Peninsula and lacked a seat of power. Abudllah’s tribe was Hashemite, while the vast majority of Abdullah’s subjects were Palestinian Arabs.

Reply,
Don’t forget that the British Promised to give the Palestinians there own state for helping fight against the Ottomans in WWI. That never materialized because of WWII.

In 1922 they did just that. Trans-Jordan, in the area east of the Jordan River (which constituted 74% of the entire Palestine Mandate. Jews were forbidden by law to enter this new emirate and those there, removed. The British tried so hard they even went so far as to take the pro-Nazi, Hajj Amin el-Husseini, although indicted by the British for his role in the anti-Jewish riots of the early 1920’s, was appointed the “Grand Mufti of Jerusalem” by the British High Commissioner. They even went so far as to reverse their stand on the concept of Palestine as a homeland for the Jews, and a series of “white papers” limited the number of Jews that could enter the country.
It still did not pacify the arabs. The British then created the Peel partition plan. The Jews accepted, the Arabs rejected it –the 92% of the original Palestine Mandate they would now have was considered inadequate.

Reply,
Actually because of the instability between Jews and Arabs, Britain gave Jordan the west bank to stabilize the region, it was a cop out because England didn’t want to get involved any more.

The Arab forces of Jordan occupied the West Bank, and King Abdullah unilaterally and illegally annexed it to his Hashemite kingdom. King Farouq of Egypt declared Egyptian sovereignty over the Gaza Strip. Both actions were illegal in terms of international law, and in high-handed defiance of UN resolutions 181 and 194. So much for your UN/International law as the be-all-end-all arguement.


--The official charter of the new Palestine Liberation Organization referred to the "Zionist invasion," declared that Israel’s Jews were "not an independent nationality," described Zionism as "racist" and "fascist," called for "the liquidation of the Zionist presence," and specified, "armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine." In short, "liberation" required the destruction of the Jewish state. The PLO was not even created by Palestinians but by the Arab League

Reply,
. Zionism is a racist, secular, and violent movement.

You exposed yourself as just another pedestrian Jew-hating zealot who brings nothing to a debate but disdain and propaganda. This is the level of discourse heard as bearded students rant on a soap box waving PLO flags on college campuses yelling," Death to Zionism, death to America."
It`s page one off the old "kill the jew" playbook.

[guyone]

Stephen

The way you present your argument leaves no room for the existence of Israel and propose that they invaded then stole the land. Prior to 1947 the land belonged to England and quite frankly I don't remember any Palestinian government in place. The fact that the UN decreed the 1947 UN partition plan meant that Earth approved the division of land.

And there are no Jewish suicide bombers. Israel does not build schools and hospital on top of military bunkers calculated hedonistically in order manipulate public opinion.

[guyone]

I believe when you retaliate you go for the throat. This way you don't wind up paying for the same real estate twice.

[yodajazz]

I strongly believe that Israel had the right to exist where it does today.

But I also believe that the Israeli goverment has abused its power.
I believe that the 'abuse', in whatever form it takes is counter-produtive.
That is that it creates more problems (enemies) than it solves (eliminates). While it is not easy to do, justice for all is the most efficient path for humanity to coexist.

I consider it to be a criminal act for people to physically attack Israel. However it is also criminal for Israel to punish or kill innocent people also.
Reacting in legal, moral ways isolates criminal behavior, making it easier to hold the real criminals responsible for their actions.

The simple 'golden rule' Christian concept has been the answer all along.

[White_Male_Canada]

Arabs became the dominant local population for the first time in the 7th Century AD as a result of Muslim invasions. The Arabs were largely nomads and they had made no attempt to create an independent Palestinian state west or east of the Jordan and none was ever established. Because it`s not theirs(Gen 25:18 ).

The UN partition plan (resolution #181, November 29, 1947) created two states: the State of Israel for the Jews, and the State of Palestine for the Arabs.

The arabs refused and attacked.

Israel offered to return the land IT WON,and could have kept being the spoils of war, during the Rhodes Armistice talks and Lausanne conference in 1949.

The arabs refused.

After that, Israel passed a law that allowed Arab refugees to re-settle in Israel provided they would sign a form in which they renounced violence, swore allegiance to the state of Israel, and became peaceful productive citizens. Over 150,000 individual arabs did so.

1967, Egypt, Syria and Jordan attacked Israel for a second time and were again defeated. Again, the spoils of war belong to the victor,that would include the West Bank and the Gaza strip, as well as the Sinai desert. Israel did not annex the geography but didn`t leave either. Because the arabs refused to stop their wars of aggression.

1973, the Arab armies again attacked Israel. Israel returned the entire Sinai under the Camp David accord.

The Oslo agreement was merely an arab hudna. In 2000, they officially launched a new Intifada against Israel, terminating the peace process.

Israel fights a defensive battle. If it wanted to it could wipe out the descendants of Ishmael off the map.


Arabs who left Israel in 48 and still alive have no legal right to return to Israel because those who represent them, arab dictatorships or monarchies,are still at war with Israel. International law,and common sense, does not require a country at war to accept hundreds of thousands of hostiles onto it`s soil.


Arabs who didn`t leave now number about 1.4 million in Israel. They have elected 12 reps in the Israel parliament, have judges sitting on the bench, have tenured professors teaching,etc. Israeli citizens of arab desent have more freedoms, education and opportunity than do any comparable arab populations in other democratic societies.

In the end it is God that deeded the land to the tribe of Judah and not descendants of Ishmael, Genesis 15:18, Deuteronomy 11:12, Deut. 33:13, Nu. 14:7, Ezek 20:6, Isaiah 51:3,etc.
And it was God who warned us all of Ishmael,” And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.”

And we all know the arabs have only one plan, to wipe Israel off the map:
http://www.alqassam.ps/english/

[InHouston]

Hope we can get a good debate going on about the issue of Israeli and Palestine.

To start it off here is a link to a new movie discussing the issues

http://www.occupation101.com/Intro_stream_hi.html

It is a shame that the European Jews a group of people that where almost systematically destroyed in Europe can move to Palestine and implement the same type of practices that they learned from the concentration camps on these poor people. Goes to show how power corrupts! What does everyone feel on this issue.

How do I feel about this? Given your erroneous facts regarding the Israeli people, and your propagandist link to a movie via a URL titled www.occupation101.com, you strike me as the atavistic beast that is the radical Muslims, who smite the necks of innocent human beings in the name of Allah, or rather a god that doesn’t even exist in the first place. Or in other words, you strike me as a simple son of a bitch.

[eggbert]

This thread is stupid. The arguments have been beaten to death. Stephen, you're obviously an incredible moron. So why not just strap a bomb to your chest & blow yourself up like the rest of the mindless zombies that have preceded you. Have a nice day.