Daisy Taylor - Why I wouldn’t recommend work in the adult industry

[ceejay100]

This appeared on Daisy's YouTube channel yesterday

[GroobySteven]

She makes some very valid points.
I'll pick up some which are pertinent to my company, or my feelings on the industry.

1. The flat fee. Why do girls not get royalties.
I completely get where this is coming from, but most models don't really have the bigger picture. I can only speak for Grooby but our margins on shoots are very slim. We're probably amongst the smallest payment per shoot, but I believe most girls get more shoots over a year with us then most companies. We also shoot with 100s of girls, where most companies shoot only a dozen or so.

If a model gets $1000 for a shoot, we also have to pay her scene partner, and the producer along with any other associated expenses but we usually are able to get most scenes to an un-edited stage for under $3000. We then have to pay for these scenes to be edited so that's a photo and a video editor on salary. We also have webmasters, marketing, accountant, servers, anti-piracy software, insurance, equipment, lawyers, travel expenses, etc. Everything you'd expect to run any company, has to be accounted for. So it's a lot more than the $1000 we need to make back before we are even in profit. For someone like Daisy, we know it's going to work well - but there are a good number of scenes during the year which we have to dump (after model/producer is paid) or models/scenes who probably won't return what we've spent on it. If we didn't shoot all these models, there wouldn't be any new talent come through (count how many new models started on Gamma, TransAngels, etc.).

So we have the finished scene and it goes on the website - and it's got one goal which is a) bring in new members and b) keep existing members happy to retain their membership. That's what/how we judge whether content is successful or not. By the following week, or indeed by the following month, that content's value has dropped as the members are looking for the newer scenes. If you want data on this, then look at GroobyArchives.com - the largest trans website in the world 45,000 scenes, featuring all the content from GroobyGirls, BlackTgirls, BrazilianTranssexuals, AsianTgirl (ladyboyladyboy) updating every week with about 18 scenes a week. The catch is the scenes are all two years out of date (so still 4k and great quality) yet it's membership is less than 8% of GroobyGirls. People want NEW content.
So our business model, generally I feel the websites update returns what we paid for the scene, and the extra things we do (DVD releases, VOD, premium sites, licensing) is our profit. I can say in all honesty, that by the time the bills are paid for most scenes our profit is less or the same as what the models get paid, which is why we have to rely on other avenues to boost that (white labels, advertising revenue, etc.). I know other companies have different business models, ours is shoot a lot of content at a fair price, and hope we can all profit on it, and it's because we shoot so much content that we're able to maintain profitability.

2. The fans - and the mental health aspect/bullying.
Daisy is so spot-on with this. The fans who demand the most, or don't really give a shit about the models are usually the ones that aren't paying for it. Even when they are paying, the barrier between model and the fans is too slim, social media has made it that way and there are a lot of bullies and a lot of demands, and for a model it must be exhausting. I can speak from my own experience, and if you follow me on Twitter @groobysteven you will see some of the madness I get in emails. The reason you guys probably think I can be gnarly here, is that we get someone asking/demanding an answer to a question, yet they've never spent a penny with us? As much as I'd like to help, my time is limited. We also get the fans who completely ignore you, when you tell them why something won't work, or those who claim to be speaking for everyone because we don't cater to their whim. I've had days where my head is spinning from dealing with people all day long, and I'm not being asked to sexualize myself (bless) so I can imagine the toll on the girls which is much, much worse than my miniscule issues in comparison.

People need to do better and be aware. This is why so many girls hire teams to run their OnlyFans, so they can insulate themselves.
This week I've had customers/non-customers ask me how to hook up with a trans girl in their area, why we don't do a certain type of scene on one site, and one character who claims to 'enjoy' seeing our content for free on Xhamster yet demands to know if a Brazilian girl he saw on an escorting site in Bumfuck, Idaho was really her or not. It just wears you down.
So yeah, I understand why Daisy must feel mentally/emotionally over it. It's a one way street - the fans love you as long as you do what they ask, and turn against you for smallest slight.

3. Producers/Companies Don't Care About Feelings.
I can say 100% we do. Yes we're a company out to make profit, but I believe we can do the right thing also and although we'll never make every model happy, and we've got to make some harsh, unpopular decisions on shooting with a model or not, we try to be as mindful to everyone as we possibly can, which is why we're so present on social media and how I'm the only company owner I know of, that models and customers can get access to. We try to reach out to girls who may be struggling or need a word of support, we've an outreach person (Kristel) who is also a licensed therapist and we're going to be offering therapy to those who need it or can't afford. And I'm not going to humble brag about what we've done for individual models or for the overall industry - but our producers and our staff DO CARE - and if you meet us, you'll realize how genuine and passionate we are about that.

4. The Scene
It's not just trans porn, it's porn in general and in the early 2000s maybe we made some stereotypes which we shouldn't have (and from which we've learned) but for the 2020s ... come on. This shit should be outlawed and people shouldn't be buying it. She's right on with it being a feedback loop.
Producers should be asking models what and how they want to be referred to, and what they're comfortable with doing. If that doesn't fit the companies ideal, or the model isn't down with the scene - then it simply shouldn't happen.
We can educate people on trans, on race, on acceptability and normality but too many companies don't and settle for the more exploitative and cheaper way to do things.

I think all girls should watch this before getting too deep into the industry. Many won't have the same problems Daisy has experienced as they won't go as far and get as much work as she did, but even those with less fans need to be aware of the toll it can take, and how to navigate the studios, the fans and the other models. The fans really have to start being more considerate about performers, just becuase you've paid someone once, or have seen them on a website doesn't mean you have access to all parts of their lives, and should expect that. There is a reason so many stars either get management teams or simply disappear from public view. I always tell models, the character you play in porn should be just that, a character and a brand - and keep a lot of your personal life private.

I hope it's not the last we see of Daisy. I've been a huge huge fan since her very first shoots and if it was feasible I'd have a scene of her every two weeks. She's one of the most articulate and anchored performers and I'm convinvced she'll excel wherever and whatever she does!

[ceejay100]

She makes some very valid points.
I'll pick up some which are pertinent to my company, or my feelings on the industry.

1. The flat fee. Why do girls not get royalties.
I completely get where this is coming from, but most models don't really have the bigger picture. I can only speak for Grooby but our margins on shoots are very slim. We're probably amongst the smallest payment per shoot, but I believe most girls get more shoots over a year with us then most companies. We also shoot with 100s of girls, where most companies shoot only a dozen or so.

If a model gets $1000 for a shoot, we also have to pay her scene partner, and the producer along with any other associated expenses but we usually are able to get most scenes to an un-edited stage for under $3000. We then have to pay for these scenes to be edited so that's a photo and a video editor on salary. We also have webmasters, marketing, accountant, servers, anti-piracy software, insurance, equipment, lawyers, travel expenses, etc. Everything you'd expect to run any company, has to be accounted for. So it's a lot more than the $1000 we need to make back before we are even in profit. For someone like Daisy, we know it's going to work well - but there are a good number of scenes during the year which we have to dump (after model/producer is paid) or models/scenes who probably won't return what we've spent on it. If we didn't shoot all these models, there wouldn't be any new talent come through (count how many new models started on Gamma, TransAngels, etc.).

So we have the finished scene and it goes on the website - and it's got one goal which is a) bring in new members and b) keep existing members happy to retain their membership. That's what/how we judge whether content is successful or not. By the following week, or indeed by the following month, that content's value has dropped as the members are looking for the newer scenes. If you want data on this, then look at GroobyArchives.com - the largest trans website in the world 45,000 scenes, featuring all the content from GroobyGirls, BlackTgirls, BrazilianTranssexuals, AsianTgirl (ladyboyladyboy) updating every week with about 18 scenes a week. The catch is the scenes are all two years out of date (so still 4k and great quality) yet it's membership is less than 8% of GroobyGirls. People want NEW content.
So our business model, generally I feel the websites update returns what we paid for the scene, and the extra things we do (DVD releases, VOD, premium sites, licensing) is our profit. I can say in all honesty, that by the time the bills are paid for most scenes our profit is less or the same as what the models get paid, which is why we have to rely on other avenues to boost that (white labels, advertising revenue, etc.). I know other companies have different business models, ours is shoot a lot of content at a fair price, and hope we can all profit on it, and it's because we shoot so much content that we're able to maintain profitability.

2. The fans - and the mental health aspect/bullying.
Daisy is so spot-on with this. The fans who demand the most, or don't really give a shit about the models are usually the ones that aren't paying for it. Even when they are paying, the barrier between model and the fans is too slim, social media has made it that way and there are a lot of bullies and a lot of demands, and for a model it must be exhausting. I can speak from my own experience, and if you follow me on Twitter @groobysteven you will see some of the madness I get in emails. The reason you guys probably think I can be gnarly here, is that we get someone asking/demanding an answer to a question, yet they've never spent a penny with us? As much as I'd like to help, my time is limited. We also get the fans who completely ignore you, when you tell them why something won't work, or those who claim to be speaking for everyone because we don't cater to their whim. I've had days where my head is spinning from dealing with people all day long, and I'm not being asked to sexualize myself (bless) so I can imagine the toll on the girls which is much, much worse than my miniscule issues in comparison.

People need to do better and be aware. This is why so many girls hire teams to run their OnlyFans, so they can insulate themselves.
This week I've had customers/non-customers ask me how to hook up with a trans girl in their area, why we don't do a certain type of scene on one site, and one character who claims to 'enjoy' seeing our content for free on Xhamster yet demands to know if a Brazilian girl he saw on an escorting site in Bumfuck, Idaho was really her or not. It just wears you down.
So yeah, I understand why Daisy must feel mentally/emotionally over it. It's a one way street - the fans love you as long as you do what they ask, and turn against you for smallest slight.

3. Producers/Companies Don't Care About Feelings.
I can say 100% we do. Yes we're a company out to make profit, but I believe we can do the right thing also and although we'll never make every model happy, and we've got to make some harsh, unpopular decisions on shooting with a model or not, we try to be as mindful to everyone as we possibly can, which is why we're so present on social media and how I'm the only company owner I know of, that models and customers can get access to. We try to reach out to girls who may be struggling or need a word of support, we've an outreach person (Kristel) who is also a licensed therapist and we're going to be offering therapy to those who need it or can't afford. And I'm not going to humble brag about what we've done for individual models or for the overall industry - but our producers and our staff DO CARE - and if you meet us, you'll realize how genuine and passionate we are about that.

4. The Scene
It's not just trans porn, it's porn in general and in the early 2000s maybe we made some stereotypes which we shouldn't have (and from which we've learned) but for the 2020s ... come on. This shit should be outlawed and people shouldn't be buying it. She's right on with it being a feedback loop.
Producers should be asking models what and how they want to be referred to, and what they're comfortable with doing. If that doesn't fit the companies ideal, or the model isn't down with the scene - then it simply shouldn't happen.
We can educate people on trans, on race, on acceptability and normality but too many companies don't and settle for the more exploitative and cheaper way to do things.

I think all girls should watch this before getting too deep into the industry. Many won't have the same problems Daisy has experienced as they won't go as far and get as much work as she did, but even those with less fans need to be aware of the toll it can take, and how to navigate the studios, the fans and the other models. The fans really have to start being more considerate about performers, just becuase you've paid someone once, or have seen them on a website doesn't mean you have access to all parts of their lives, and should expect that. There is a reason so many stars either get management teams or simply disappear from public view. I always tell models, the character you play in porn should be just that, a character and a brand - and keep a lot of your personal life private.

I hope it's not the last we see of Daisy. I've been a huge huge fan since her very first shoots and if it was feasible I'd have a scene of her every two weeks. She's one of the most articulate and anchored performers and I'm convinvced she'll excel wherever and whatever she does!

Thanks for such a detailed and considered commentary on this matter, especially considering you had to spend over 40 minutes watching the video.

I guess that there must be extreme pressure on the most popular girls to keep shooting content. It certainly seemed like that with Transangels where there seemed to be a new Daisy scene every week, until they suddenly dried up. Having said that I see from her twitter that she has shot a new scene with TA and is also working with other studios.

Perhaps there has been a recent bad experience and I hope that Daisy bounces back

[MrFanti]

she makes some very valid points.
2. the fans - and the mental health aspect/bullying.
daisy is so spot-on with this. The fans who demand the most, or don't really give a shit about the models are usually the ones that aren't paying for it. Even when they are paying, the barrier between model and the fans is too slim, social media has made it that way and there are a lot of bullies and a lot of demands, and for a model it must be exhausting. I can speak from my own experience, and if you follow me on twitter @groobysteven you will see some of the madness i get in emails. The reason you guys probably think i can be gnarly here, is that we get someone asking/demanding an answer to a question, yet they've never spent a penny with us? As much as i'd like to help, my time is limited. We also get the fans who completely ignore you, when you tell them why something won't work, or those who claim to be speaking for everyone because we don't cater to their whim. I've had days where my head is spinning from dealing with people all day long, and i'm not being asked to sexualize myself (bless) so i can imagine the toll on the girls which is much, much worse than my miniscule issues in comparison.

People need to do better and be aware. This is why so many girls hire teams to run their onlyfans, so they can insulate themselves.
This week i've had customers/non-customers ask me how to hook up with a trans girl in their area, why we don't do a certain type of scene on one site, and one character who claims to 'enjoy' seeing our content for free on xhamster yet demands to know if a brazilian girl he saw on an escorting site in bumfuck, idaho was really her or not. It just wears you down.
So yeah, i understand why daisy must feel mentally/emotionally over it. It's a one way street - the fans love you as long as you do what they ask, and turn against you for smallest slight.

boom - drop the mic!

[dc_guy_75]

Daisy is one of the all-time greats. There have been few more beautiful girls to ever work in the industry, and she's obviously very intelligent and grounded.

Considering aesthetics are extremely important in porn, she's done herself no favors with her tattoos; while some people might like them, most people probably don't. She's also gotten a little chubby (though haven''t we all?)

Even at age 24, her post-covid status seems diminished, and she's experiencing the post-peak trajectory that every porn star or athlete or model experiences.

Daisy/Charlie seems bright enough to do anything she wants, and it's likely better she gives up porn sooner vs later while she's young enough to pursue any potential paths in her life.

[GroobySteven]

Daisy is one of the all-time greats. There have been few more beautiful girls to ever work in the industry, and she's obviously very intelligent and grounded.

Considering aesthetics are extremely important in porn, she's done herself no favors with her tattoos; while some people might like them, most people probably don't. She's also gotten a little chubby (though haven''t we all?)

Even at age 24, her post-covid status seems diminished, and she's experiencing the post-peak trajectory that every porn star or athlete or model experiences.

Daisy/Charlie seems bright enough to do anything she wants, and it's likely better she gives up porn sooner vs later while she's young enough to pursue any potential paths in her life.

Fuck me. This is exactly what she was talking about - see point 3 above.

[Stavros]

Judged by this and the other videos on her YouTube channel, Daisy comes across as a sensible, practical person who enjoys work and most other things in life. Sunshyne Monroe some time ago in a video posted on HA, pointed out how many of her friends who were also performers were often homeless, in debt, with drink and drugs problems. Right now I can imagine that basic problems like paying the rent or trying to buy an apartment are as hard in US cities as they are elsewhere, whereas Daisy may be in the position she is because she knows what to do with the money she has earned. Ignorance about money is one of the oddest things in life, given how important money is, and how little about financial management is taught in schools.

That said, anyone in the performing arts has chosen to work in an unstable business, one that often doesn't pay to most of its people what is earned by the top stars who at a certain level of their career can choose their work, though you have to wonder why someone like Robert De Niro has chosen, we assume to make so many poor films in recent years. There have always been directors and producers who nurtured talent and those who squandered it, or abused it. The lucky ones are those who have made substantial sums from being in a hugely successful franchise like Game of Thrones, or the Harry Potter films, though like footballers, it is still possible for young people who have made millions to lose it by the time they in their 30s.

And I think, not sure, that the most successful porn artist has been Jenna Jameson who made most of her money from the book How to Make Love like a Porn Star, which was No 1 bestseller for six weeks.

It is also a given that women have a lot going for them when young and attractive but less as times go on, or they become mothers, grandmothers and eccentric old ladies, so I hope Daisy has thought about her choices in the long term.

As for the fans, well I guess they have always gone from one end of adoring and harmless to strange and dangerous, only we didn't know that much about such people in the past when there was no social media like there is today, though the absence of Twitter or Facebook didn't stop Chapman from murdering John Lennon or the man who was obsessed with Jodie Foster and tried to kill President Reagan.

[Murmdrum]

that was a great watch and I feel for her...shes right about a majority of the fans being harassing assholes..the internet has been one of the best things ever and at the same time one of the worst things ever. keyboard warrior trolls only interested din their own self gratification. sad state of events. the happiest smile in this video is when she said she's excited for the future after porn...hopefully she finds happiness soon

[Murmdrum]

"And I think, not sure, that the most successful porn artist has been Jenna Jameson who made most of her money from the book How to Make Love like a Porn Star, which was No 1 bestseller for six weeks.

It is also a given that women have a lot going for them when young and attractive but less as times go on, or they become mothers, grandmothers and eccentric old ladies, so I hope Daisy has thought about her choices in the long term."


@Stavros....Not to hijack this thread but I believe she made most of her money from the sale of Club Jenna with her ex husband. Not sure what the book brought in. She has struggled with booze and pills and pissed away a lot of that money. The worst part is she has abandoned the three kids she had and is overly active on social media and never mentions them when called on it. She just blocks and moves on. despicable human

[Stavros]

"And I think, not sure, that the most successful porn artist has been Jenna Jameson who made most of her money from the book How to Make Love like a Porn Star, which was No 1 bestseller for six weeks.

It is also a given that women have a lot going for them when young and attractive but less as times go on, or they become mothers, grandmothers and eccentric old ladies, so I hope Daisy has thought about her choices in the long term."


@Stavros....Not to hijack this thread but I believe she made most of her money from the sale of Club Jenna with her ex husband. Not sure what the book brought in. She has struggled with booze and pills and pissed away a lot of that money. The worst part is she has abandoned the three kids she had and is overly active on social media and never mentions them when called on it. She just blocks and moves on. despicable human

You make fair points, given my limited knowledge of Ms Jameson. That said, it does reinforce the argument about the success and failure of financial management, with the rider that one hopes people like Daisy don't fritter away what they have earned.