Seven Year Itch: Scratching Brexit

[Stavros]

It made no virtual difference now or then. Long-term could be different.

Personally I wanted out because I wanted no place in the social experiment that numpty Major committed us to with his weak pushing through of the Maastricht Treaty, when he should have stood up for the actual and original aims of the EEC/EU.

The man is either ignorant, or enjoys distorting history. From the Treaty of Rome in 1957 through to the Lisbon Treaty of 2007, these words have been in the first sentence : Ever Closer Union. These three words define the long-term project that was at the root of the movement that began long before the actuality of the Iron, Coal and and Steel Community of 1951 (Community- get it?). These three words are the red rag to the anti-EU bull whether the horns were on the head of Socialist Tony Benn, or Conservative Margaret Thatcher.

He needs to admit that when Edward Heath took the UK into the Common Marker, what he wanted, and what timid Conservatives and Little England Socialists like Benn grudgingly accepted was a Trading Relationship. They never signed up to the Federalism at the heart of the EU's long term ambition. This half-in, half-out attitude was one reason why the UK never made a total commitment to European Unity. In 1997 Tony Blair said he wanted the UK to be at 'the heart of Europe', but when 9/11 came along, he ditched Europe to tie the UK to the heels of the US in that age-old preference for the Atlantic Relationship as the UK's primary alliance. It made sense to Churchill because he was half-American, but it meant that in spite of the role the UK played in the legal evolution of the EU, the role played by Margaret Thatcher in the creation of the Single Market, the British public never felt truly part of the European project, 'we' were never going to be part of that 'Ever Closer Union'.

As for Brexit making no 'virtual difference' -this is drivel. How many families have had to choose between living in the UK or the EU? How many businesses have given up because of the avalanche of red tape, or had to adapt by sacking people, or hiring even more and passing all the costs onto their customers? How about the fact that the UK is poorer than it was, that its economy is performing poorly and so on?

And then there is the issue of Race...another aspect of Brexit few people want to discuss. Not everyone who voted Leave was a Racist, but most Racists voted Leave.

[filghy2]

Looks like more of those whiners who refuse to face the reality makes no difference.
"New Brexit checks will make food price inflation even worse, warns industry"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2364313.html

[Stavros]

Looks like more of those whiners who refuse to face the reality makes no difference.
"New Brexit checks will make food price inflation even worse, warns industry"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2364313.html

Filghy2 I think by now you will be aware that when reality does not match the claims made, it is reality that is at fault. Trump loses election, and does not lose -the result was rigged, and no amount of evidence to the contrary will change that view.

Boris Johnson remains convinced Brexit was the right decision, and has brought benefits to the UK. No amount of evidence to the contrary affects his argument, because it is not admitted as evidence just as he continues to insist he did nothing wrong during the Covid pandemic regardless of how many photos and videos show him breaking his own rules. Economic decline is not the fault of Brexit, but something else, just as our correspondent in HungAngels because he has not been affected by Brexit personally, therefore cannot see what the problem is. At least he has not complained that if Brexit failed, it was because it was sabotaged by Parliament and the Civil Service.

One of the by-products of Brexit has been the way in which the Conservatives (as opposed to those in Labour who voted Leave), now reject Margaret Thatcher as one of the key architects of the Single Market. Boris Johnson when introducing a policy on Social Care in effect said it was an attempt to succeed where over 40 years others -which must include Maggie- had failed. Mike Pence has complained that Republicans in the US no longer support Free Markets, as Ronald Reagan did. He did not mention Trump, but there is little doubt that Trump does not believe in Free Markets, from his colossal subsidies to US farmers following his catastrophic trade failure with China, to his own dependence on tax payers as a source of the capital for his building projects. Right now he continues to claim to be a Billionaire, while begging taxpayers for money to pay his lawyers, some of the money for them coming from the SuperPAC he set up for his Presidential bid.

The freedoms and the values that Brexit was intended to bring to the UK are a mirage, like free markets in the US. In this desert of the mind, no amount of water will wash away the dirt. Perhaps it isn't water at all, but the tears of the Deep State.

[peejaye]

They voted in once, and out once.

Regarding the out, most don't regret it but there are a very noisy mini-minority who won't face reality and insist on keeping crying about it. For the vast majority it's made virtually no difference to their lives, and don't let the numpties try and persuade you otherwise.

He's a little man with a huge ego, they were defeated by the people and can't accept it. Look at that C**T Alastair Campbell, have you ever seen anything like it? STOP putting the UK down, you're a passive liar, you people want the UK to fail but it won't.
I spend a lot of time in the UK during summer, it's a great place, my wife loves it too, she's into English history, it's just the same now as it was before, supermarkets are a little more expensive, everyone I know believes in Brexit, wait till Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson team up to stop Labour getting in, LOL
Can't wait, watch this space. I love GBNews by the way, what a breath of fresh air, lots of positive Brexit news there, don't waste your time here Obslam

[Stavros]

He's a little man with a huge ego, they were defeated by the people and can't accept it. Look at that C**T Alastair Campbell, have you ever seen anything like it? STOP putting the UK down, you're a passive liar, you people want the UK to fail but it won't.
I spend a lot of time in the UK during summer, it's a great place, my wife loves it too, she's into English history, it's just the same now as it was before, supermarkets are a little more expensive, everyone I know believes in Brexit, wait till Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson team up to stop Labour getting in, LOL
Can't wait, watch this space. I love GBNews by the way, what a breath of fresh air, lots of positive Brexit news there, don't waste your time here Obslam

If you spent more time here, Peejaye you might be aware of the polls that register deep disillusion with Brexit, just as you know the margin of victory in 2016 was too small to be legitimate in anything other than mathematical terms.

If you are going to compare egos, you might ask if a country as small as this one can match Boris Johnson with Nigel Farage, just as you don't seem to be aware of the crisis in the Conservative Party that has overtaken it since 2016 -five Prime Ministers in 7 years, god knows how many Chancellors, Foreign Secs, and so on. Johnson expelling Tories from the Tory party, the Tory party expelling Johnson, the Covid enquiry exposing the incompetence of Tory Govt, etc etc.

So ok, shrug your shoulders and pretend not much has gone wrong here, and live a better life in Colombia, where I believe you are happier than you were in the UK, and I am pleased to hear that by the way. And my guess is that there are members of HA who wish they were also living in Colombia and we all know why!

[peejaye]

This will cheer you up Stavros;

https://www.gbnews.com/news/nigel-fa...23-tric-awards

Even beat your mates at the BBC and bigger mates at Channel 4
Not your day is it.... voted for by "The People"

[Stavros]

Thank you for giving me some amusement on this grey day in Bardland. I loathe Nigel Farage, but I too have watched him on GB News, and he is an articulate man. I just don't share his perspectives or his politics. I would not silence him, and I don't think he is that hard to combat with solid arguments, of the kind he doesn't have. I cannot forget his pathetic argument on Brexit that the Germans will still want to sell us 750,000 vehicles a year so nothing to fear, when the Germans were selling more than 20 million to China, meaning: which market is more important to the Germans, China or the UK?

As for viewing figures, let's put it this way -more than 3 million for the Six O'Clock News on BBC 1; Farage getting around 83,000, both beaten by Coronation Street, which I guess you don't get in Colombia, though I am sure your Mum will tape them for you if you get withdrawal symptoms.

Which prompts a different question outside the thread -do Colombian soap operas have any Transgender characters, played by Transgendered actors?

[obslam]

STOP putting the UK down, you're a passive liar, you people want the UK to fail but it won't.

Is this directed at me, as you quoted me?

Or at the numpty who I can't see as I blocked his endless, childish conversations with himself?

I'm not putting the UK down. It's a great place to live as, I am sure, are many other places too.

[peejaye]

No Obslam, sorry for any confusion, I see why it looked like that, it was intended for the Author

[Stavros]

Is this directed at me, as you quoted me?

Or at the numpty who I can't see as I blocked his endless, childish conversations with himself?

I'm not putting the UK down. It's a great place to live as, I am sure, are many other places too.

You can read my posts if you access HA without logging in, though there are limited number of posts you can read. I think you probably do, but for me the problem is that you don't really debate Brexit, just make statements that satisfy your position. You have nothing to say on the fact that the most economically successful part of the UK is Northern Ireland which, for practical reasons, remains part of the EU's Single Market and Customs Union. You might want to ask why, but then again, you might not as it doesn't fit your distorted narrative. You know perfectly well how many businesses have been negatively affected by Brexit, just as you have seen in your own industry jobs go to Amsterdam, Paris and Milan taking billions of dollars worth of trade with them, just admit you don't care about it, just as you don't care how many families have been forced out of the country, the freedom of movement we once enjoyed now limited.

As for talking to myself, I have started more threads since I joined HA than you, given you have not started one in 16 years, and if you had better access, you would also see the multiple replies and conversations I have created and contributed to, but there is no law that says you must read and reply to posts.

Brexit and the people who support it have dragged this country into the international gutter, choosing sewage over sense, preferring to yell like cats from the margins rather than take responsible actions as a Global citizen. Day after day in the Mail and the Telegraph they ridicule this country and the people who live in it, like Trump and De Santis, bleating about 'woke' this and 'woke' that, referring to the Government and Civil Service as a 'blob' because they cannot summon up any words from the English language that support their lost cause, relying instead, like loser Trump, on juvenile abuse. We are lumbered with this motley collection of idiots, racists and pretend Conservatives who don't want to conserve anything, but change everything as if the changes they forced on us so far are not demonstrably destructive.