Donald Trump Indicted on 7 Counts

[Stavros]

The BBC News channel was reporting live from Bedminster last night, but after a few minutes of 'not of this world' drivel, they cut away to return to their panel, one of whom argued that Trump didn't even seem to know what the law was that was being used to try him.

One new thing I think -a member of the public outside the Miami courthouse said the US was becoming like Nicaragua and the Democrats, Biden in particular like the Sandinistas- and after court, Trump went to a 'Latino/Cuban' cafe, while the links are now being made to Latin American dictatorships in Cuba, Venezuela and Nicaragua -is this something to do with the identity of the Jurors in the trial?

Are all 'Latinos' right wing 'Conservatives'? Is this a risk, or just not a risk in Florida?

And, one notes, at one time, it was the US who was directly or indirectly protecting or sponsoring military dictatorships in Latin America, from El Salvador south to Argentina.

As for the boxes containing shirts, shoes and socks....earlier in the day Trump claimed they were planted in Mar-a-Lago by the FBI. The man is unhinged and everyone can see it, so why do they still ride with him?

[tslvr]

I'm really getting tired of all of this, fringe right and fringe left are all bad. Someone has to have some sense and play in the middle.

[Stavros]

I'm really getting tired of all of this, fringe right and fringe left are all bad. Someone has to have some sense and play in the middle.

Can I ask who you refer to? Is it not the case that the 'fringe right' is now at the centre of Republican Party politics, and with the aid of Fox News and the 'Christian' Evangelists has established the most extreme agenda in US politics since at least the 1950s?

Fringe left is a difficult one for someone in the UK like me, as what I assume to be it really is on the fringes of US politics, though I guess if you refer to some BLM and Trans activists they can make a lot of noise -but the Democrats and Biden occupy the centre ground- maybe the party has not moved on from the Bill Clinton era and needs a more progressive agenda suited to the needs of the 21st, rather than the 20th century -??

I find it comical or absurd when Trump refers to Marxists, as I don't believe he has a clue what the term means, but knows it 'scares' people.

[tslvr]

Can I ask who you refer to? Is it not the case that the 'fringe right' is now at the centre of Republican Party politics, and with the aid of Fox News and the 'Christian' Evangelists has established the most extreme agenda in US politics since at least the 1950s?

Fringe left is a difficult one for someone in the UK like me, as what I assume to be it really is on the fringes of US politics, though I guess if you refer to some BLM and Trans activists they can make a lot of noise -but the Democrats and Biden occupy the centre ground- maybe the party has not moved on from the Bill Clinton era and needs a more progressive agenda suited to the needs of the 21st, rather than the 20th century -??

I find it comical or absurd when Trump refers to Marxists, as I don't believe he has a clue what the term means, but knows it 'scares' people.

No country can survive with either fringe being the ruling party. I've voted both left and right in my life, so I try to see things from both sides. Bill Clinton did a lot of good for this country was he was forced to the middle. Trumpdid many good things while he was in office< but it is time for him to move on because this election for him is more about revenge and that isn't good. And Biden has always claimed to be a centrist, but he's the guy that led to taxing social security. As president, I truly believe that he is not in charge of anything. He's closing in on three years and still only takes scripted questions from certain reporters.

[filghy2]

And Biden has always claimed to be a centrist, but he's the guy that led to taxing social security.

That's just misinformation. https://www.factcheck.org/2020/09/po...ecurity-taxes/

"In the early 1980s, President Ronald Reagan, with congressional leaders, convened a bipartisan commission to study the issue. In 1983, that commission issued a report that formed the basis for amendments to the Social Security program. Among the recommendations in the report was that benefits be taxed as income for recipients who had income over a certain threshold.

The bill that included that change to the program passed in a bipartisan vote in 1983. Biden was one of 88 senators who voted for it. Only nine senators voted against it.

When Reagan signed the bill into law, he praised the bipartisan effort in his remarks and was joined by members of both parties."

What does any of this have to do with the charges against Trump anyway?

[Stavros]

No country can survive with either fringe being the ruling party. I've voted both left and right in my life, so I try to see things from both sides. Bill Clinton did a lot of good for this country was he was forced to the middle. Trumpdid many good things while he was in office< but it is time for him to move on because this election for him is more about revenge and that isn't good. And Biden has always claimed to be a centrist, but he's the guy that led to taxing social security. As president, I truly believe that he is not in charge of anything. He's closing in on three years and still only takes scripted questions from certain reporters.

Thanks for your reply.

A country can survive extremism in politics, but in a damaged form, and too much time is then taken up by successors trying to repair the damage -this is what has happened in the UK with Brexit, and it appears it will be years before the UK can repair the damage done by Boris Johnson and the other supporters of Brexit. If the UK has not fallen apart, that might be due to the crisis in the Scottish National Party that has deferred a new Independence Referendum for years.

Moreover, while I understand the Americans have a different definition of 'Left' and 'Right' from mine, if 'centrism' means Democrats and Republicans doing more or less the same thing, then even Trump was a Centrist. His alleged idol, Ronald Reagan famously declared 'Govt is the problem, not the solution', but did little to disengage the State from the Economy, which ought to be a litmus test of any fidelity to Free Enterprise and Free Markets.

Trump did not disengage the State from the Economy. Throughout his life has relied on the tax payer to give him the loans he used to fund his buildings, just as he has posted business failure after business failure to claim compensation from the tax payer. Did he reform the tax system to ensure that tax payers don't reward business failure? Of course not. His 'tax reforms' were just benefits for the rich, just as his massive subsidies to agriculture were based on his catastrophic trade relations with China, and his personal belief that if tax payers are subsidizing his life, they may as well reward failing farmers.

So what did Trump achieve? I don't see anything

-the border wall the Mexicans didn't pay for, which was never completed and never effective in preventing the cross-border passage of illegal immigrants

-the promotion of a repeal of Roe-vs-Wade through his judicial appointments has lost the Republican party votes in every election in States since the Supreme Court decision

-he approved the assassination of Qasem Suleymani, but was a stunt -when the Iranians retaliated by killing Americans in Iraq, Trump got scared and backed off an escalation (which was what John Bolton wanted).

-Trump negotiated with the Taliban the withdrawal of US troops from Afghanistan, though it was Biden acting on that agreement who was more heavily criticised

-Trump lauded the 'Abraham Accords' that saw Middle East dictatorships that already had relations with Israel, formalize them, presided over by a man, Jared Kushner who, along with his Father and Brother, have financial investments in Israel; rarely has American foreign policy been more concerned with the financial interests of the President and his relations, than the USA as a country

-Trump's mismanagement of the Covid pandemic is a scandal -not only did he dismiss the science from the start, when it was his moral and Constitutional duty to support the most affected States -Washington, Michigan and New York, he swamped them in insults and abuse instead, while his son-in-law Jared Kushner actually deprived the State of New York of Federal PPE in order to make the Democrat administration there look weak and ineffective. As for promoting anti-science doubts about vaccines and lock-downs, one could argue Trump should be in Court as an accessory to murder, though to some extent the Governors of States, such as De Santis are also in the frame for these crimes.

-the war against Science did not just increase the unnecessary deaths from Covid, but is integrated into the ignorant drivel Trump and his supporters say about Trans issues, from the attempt to throw Trans Americans out of the military to the weaponizaton of children as part of their preposterous defence of 'the Family', as defined by 'Christian' evangelists.

-Trump demeaned the Office of the President because he never understood what it means. He inherited the CEO position in his father's firm, he never worked his way to the top. As CEO he barked orders, and they were obeyed, and that is how he viewed the Presidency, and because he has no humility or an understanding of what work is, he cannot adjust his perspective to see how unsuitable he is for the Office, though most Americans never considered him fit for that office.

-He says he 'rebuilt' the military but it wasn't in need of repair. But he did heap insult and abuse on veterans, just as he spent years insulting and abusing Americans. He called Hillary Clinton a 'skank'; he said of Americans who don't like him, 'they're scum'. The language of a jerk, not the President

-As for policies on gun control, narcotics, homelessness -four years of Trump led to a deterioration across all three areas and many lost and damaged lives.

One final thought, about 'the Border'. Why have so many Central Americans given up on their own country to head north? In four years, did Trump ever take Central and Southern America seriously as partners, neighbours, even friends? Surely if the US wants to stop illegal immigrants from 'the South', it should have a 'Southern Strategy'? Trump has no idea what strategic thinking is, and I doubt he ever bothered to either read expert reports on ''Latin America', or take notice of anything said to him, because he elevates his ignorance into wisdom, and his incompetence into genius.

So on fundamentals, the Americans remain divided as they have been since I took an interest in the place- they want the Federal Govt to help out when times are bad, but can't decide if this creates a dependency on the State, or the dependency is due to chronic economic failure. They want the US to be a strong, international power, but aren't united on where and how to be this. On social policy, I think most Americans are liberal, that is, they believe individuals should make the decisions that affect their lives, and not be shaped by the demands of 'Christian' Fundamentalists. And so on.

So Biden represents what most Americans believe in, and Trump what they reject. Biden might not come across as the dynamic, incisive type of President Obama was, but in functional terms, he has achieved more in three years than Trump ever did or can; and for all the explosive claims of Fox News, and the nut jobs in Congress determined to prove Biden is corrupt, the simple fact is that Trump has and has had the closest relations to organized crime and convicted criminals than any other President, but they don't want to talk about that.

And it may be that he joins his buddies as a convicted felon himself. And American knows it is better than this, which is why Trump will never be President again.

[filghy2]

Far from being part of a partisan witchhunt against Trump, the evidence suggests that the DoJ and FBI have been extremely reluctant to pursue investigations against him for fear of being seen as partisan. A Washington Post investigation reveals that investigation of the role of Trump and his associates in January 6 was delayed for over a year.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/inves...ore-than-year/

Even on the documents case, the indictment took almost 18 months after they first learned that Trump had likely retained classified material.
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...fbi-jail-biden

As a result, we now have a situation in which legal proceedings are unlikely to be completed before the next election, while the ability to gather evidence on January 6 may have been hampered by the delay. Perhaps the cautious approach may influence the perceptions of independents and some of the saner Republicans, but it's clearly not going to make any difference to most Republicans.

[Stavros]

And a man who claims he can't get a fair trial in New York or Washington has not, as far as I know, argued he can't be tried in Florida-- in district that voted for him, from who the jury will be selected, under a judge he appointed. Will they convict on the evidence?

[Stavros]

Is he going down? I can't imagine a 'real man' like Trump would ever go down on a woman, but I can see the reason why he will do the time when he has so clearly done the crime.

The most disturbing aspect of this is the contempt that Trump supporters have shown for the Rule of Law, which is fundamental to a free society. Mike Pence, boringly normal in this regard, has supported the law over Trump, while others, the usual suspects, not just De Santis but for heaven's sake, a so-called Lawyer, have defended Trump, as if they were so blinded by their loyalty to this Grade A American Crook, they can't see the cliff edge toward which they are walking.

Yes, Trump has been treated differently from other Americans -he should have been arrested on January 6th 2021, though I guess prosecutors always want a tight case to present in Court. But the Fake Electors? Surely they could have been arrested as soon as they made themselves known, just as Trump's supporters know his handling of Govt documents was completely different from the way they were handled by Clinton, Biden and Pence. The desperation being shown is all the more reckless when it is the Rule of Law, and indeed, portentous as it sounds, the foundations of the Republic that are at stake.

Trump cares only for himself, his supporters know that. Trump cannot win an election, his supporters know that. It seems to me that this is worse than Watergate, but it remains a critical test, and if it fails, why then, surely the US will have failed as a state, and it is only a matter of time before people trafficking, child killing filth like Greg Abbott declare independence, or some form of State Autonomy?

Brexit has brought the UK to the edge of collapse, but the collapse has not happened, largely because the Scottish Nationalists are imploding, and on a few policies the UK has reversed course; but the UK has been weakened as a state, politically and economically. I think the US is at a similar crossroads, but the stakes are higher.

One certain thing: the relentless Trump Everywhere All at Once, is sucking the oxygen out of politics. The homeless remain on the streets; the poor make their daily trek to the food bank; the rivers and reservoirs dry up with no coherent plan to manage resources when so many Republicans think the environmental threats they can see every day are just accidents, or once in a lifetime events and normality will be resumed next week, or next month.

The only positive is that a generation of men is in the political departure lounge -Mitch McConnell, Donald Trump, if only Joe Biden- is it really too late for the Democrats to make a bold step and choose another?

Is there a new generation genuinely determined to heal America's wounds, or is it a lost cause?

[Fitzcarraldo]

Half the country already thinks Biden is a woke commie lib, when he's actually about as centrist as an American politician can be right now. Anyone to the left of him will likely lose to whatever steaming pile the Republicans nominate, and a lot of people may vote Republican simply because Biden is old.

Even the non-right media has done nothing to paint Biden's administration in a positive light. Any good news on the economy is couched in terms of a looming recession. His age is always mentioned. Polling showing that voters don't want a Biden/Trump rematch is always mentioned. The man literally pulled us back from the brink, got landmark infrastructure legislation and the CHIPS Act passed, and gets zero credit.

This is worse than Watergate because Nixon resigned instead of just claiming that it was a bogus investigation (and he knew his party was not going to back him). Now we have the entire Republican party doubling down on not only not holding Trump accountable for any criminal activity, but of doing everything possible to put him back in the White House so he can destroy our constitutional republic forever.

Fake electors have been indicted in Michigan. Something is coming in Georgia eventually.